Worried dad- 3 week old baby, no weight gain.

[AdamR]

Hello Everyone.
As a first post on here im sorry it has to be a 'help' but im hoping to be able to contribute more once we have her gaining weight.

Well, Chloe is now 3 weeks old.
when she was born she was 6lb 15oz, during the first week she lost 5oz which isnt all that bad especially since she had a tounge tie.

At 1 week old she had her tounge tie cut and between week 1 and 2 she put on her 5oz again (exclusivley on breast).

now at 3 weeks old she is still only 6lb 15oz.
she has around 3-5 really dirty nappies and same in wet ones.
She also feeds every 3-4 hours for about 40 minutes or so with a short gap for winding in the middle (again just on breast).
she also suffers from quite bad wind which is quite upseting for us at times.

Am i being ovely worried as she is my first baby. i thought she would have put on a few oz by now.
she seems a happy and content baby apart from the wind..

thanks for your help in advance.

Adam

It's not breast shells you need, it's nipple shields. They go over the breast when feeding and take the direct contact away.
I will probably get shot down in flames for this, but IME it could be that you are not winding her enough. My mum taught me that if the babies top lip (between lip and nose) looks bluish or dusky, there is still wind in there. This can a/ make them cry in discomfort, and b/ gove them a false sense of fulness which then dissipates, making them hungry again. Keep patting/ rubbing till it comes up. You can be more vigourous than you think when winding ( obv. Don't hurt her). I used to sit rubbing for ages sometimes but the burp always came in the end!
I concur, there is always milk, and the more you ask for, the more you get next time.
Hang in there, the first few weeks are hard, but before you know it, she will be feeding like a pro!
P.s I wish my DP was more like you! He was no use at all when DCs were small!

Hey Adam, sorry your gf is having problems. I'm no bf expert but please go through every source of help before you give up as if you want to bf it is so worth it.

Bf is hard to start with for some people - I had no idea it could ever be a problem. I had a torrid time and was still taking paracetamol for random breast pain after 7 weeks but am now succesfully ebf my 14 week old. It does get better.

Use the advice you get on here as there are lots of experts and they really got me through some dark days and nights.

Yes to the winding suggestion. Put her up against your shoulder, with your shoulder poking her right in the tummy and pat her back. If you wind her sitting on your knee, make sure you support her head and neck with your fingers (without strangling her or constricting her neck obv)) and straighten her body out as much as possible with your palm - leaning her forward slightly should make this easier, then pat and rub for quite a while. Change her position to be sure you've got it all. Sometimes laying her down and then picking her up to vertical helps, like a spirit level almost.

And maybe thrush should be investigated too?

Everyone needs to get a little sleep so giving the bottle when nothing is working is probably not going to make or break; nobody benefits when everyone is frazzled. Rest is good for all.

Hope the gf will talk to LLL too so nothing gets lost in translation. Tell her lots of people are wishing her well.

Hi Adam, sorry that your partner is having such a tough time. Don't know if this is any help but the NCT bf counsellors in both Southampton and Winchester are great. You can find their numbers by looking up the branches on the NCT website.

It is a bit of a trek for you but the counsellors in Winchester have a drop in session at the Lanterns children centre each Wed morning. It can be a bit busy but your gf will receive sensitive one to one support.

www.nct.org.uk/in-your-area/event-finder/event-view/1263

Have replied to your pm will call later at a more "sensible" hour

the G/f is holding her almost parrallel with the bed accross her chest. the Babys head on her right boob and the babys bum 'pinched' between her left elbow and body.
This is the only hold that she uses at the moment.

She has tried holding her down her right side under her arm when trying to feed. this doesnt seem to work.

And she has tried laying down next to each other but the babys doesnt seem to like that.

The wind issue might be helped, and the latch too, if your GF tries to feed lying back at about 45 degrees, propped on lots of pillows. Basically place the baby down so she's lying along the line of her mum's tummy, with the mouth just above the nipple. She'll start rooting and scanning with her arms and may latch on without help. A lot of babies find this lets wind out easier too.

Her arm movements when you try to get her latched on are actually her attempt to find the breast!

You could also try a ring sling. This holds the baby diagonally across your body so she can be under your arm or across your body and is comfortable, supported and snug. This might also help the baby sleep as she is cuddled close but you can still move and do stuff.

slight hijack to MrsSnaplegs would you consider making a complaint about the 'boobiewoobie' woman? people can do no end of damage like that, even if they have a heart of gold. Her colleagues are probably cringing all the time but don't know what to do- as a consumer, your feedback will carry some weight

Shallishanti Absolutely not - I have no issue with the individual or her care of me or my child. Yes her terminology was possibly aimed at the majority of her client base but if that is what she feels comfortable with and needs to use for most of her clients then fine, to be honest she made DH and I giggle. If she had said anything that was harmful then it would be different but she didn't. She was professional and a good support to DH and I as was MN BFing forum and actually all we needed was the signposting she provided for us including when I had thrush over Xmas public holidays. I didn't need more than 2 chats with her to put me back on the straight and narrow and look for help if I needed it, I wish she was there 5 years ago when I had my DD. That is part of the reason I have been in touch with AdamR and his GF - I didn't want them to go unsupported if they hadn't got on with her - you can't like everyone.

AdamR - hope things settle, have sent you a massive pm for you and your GF

adam I looked at your photo of Chloe, she is so so cute! In the middle of the night, sometimes it's a good job they are that cute, isn't it?

I didn't mention it before, but like saggyoldcatpuss, I have used nipple shields. It was seriously the difference between carrying on or giving up at 7 days.
these are the ones we had.

They can be criticised by some people because in the long term they can reduce your milk supply, but they will give your GF a bit of respite as they make it much less painful. I found they also helped my baby to latch on better. You can work on getting rid of them later, when the nipples aren't so sore.

You are all doing really well, good luck with the breastfeeding groups.

That sounds just like my first baby. Took her 3 weeks to regain the weight - took a while for the breast feeding to work but then we did it fora year and a half in the end. Just fab. She is still quite small now aged 8 but it's genetic - shes also very bright and perfectly formed.

Shallishanti

I would not want to lodge a complaint against the breast feeding lady. She really does not mean any harm, just I dont think her method is great for us. :)

I will have a look at those nipple shields, but would want to keep feeding as natural as possible.

Will do a bit more of an update hopefully win a few days, but if i go quiet, its because we are moving tomorrow and we wont have internet or a phone line for a few weeks! :(

good luck with the move!

AdamR - are you staying local? If GF wants somewhere quiet she can always come here for a couple of hours, I know we haven't met but I also know how stressfull moving is as we did it when I was 35 weeks

Nipple shields really take the pain away, and will help baby get a proper mouthful. I only used them for a couple of days, but that was enough. As with pookamoo, they were the difference between BF or giving up!

interesting comments about breast shields comming in. do they assist the babys latch ?

MrsSnaplegs,
We are moving in to elson (1st house), so we are still fairly local and im hoping all will run smoothly.
We dont have to be in there straight away which im hoping will reduce stress, but im wanting to get most things sorted so we are deffinately in by saturday.

I will see if the GF wants to go for a walk and stroll down your way :)

Thank you for the offer

I would post this in Breastfeeding too- you will get alot more advice. (Not saying the advice on here isn't good already but Tiktok usually replies to threads like this doesn't she?)

Adam maybe we could meet for coffee/ lunch next week if not. Hopemove is ok

Hi Adam,

Wish I'd seen your poster yesterday, don't know if your still around. But it would be good to post this in Breastfeeding as there are some lovely ladies over there who are breastfeeding councilers.

I'm going to add some more info hear for you. First there are a number of support lines' if the NCT doesn't have someone close who can come out and see you then maybe some else does.

Hear are the no.
National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212

NCT Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 330 0771

La Leche League Helpline
0845 120 2918

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
08444 122 949

this is a really good ebsite for lots of info on breastfeeding
www.kellymom.com/index.html

This website has video's to show you what a good latch should look like plus lots of good information to.
www.bestbeginnings.org.uk/

As for the soure nipples the best thing for healing is wet healing. Keeping them moist all the time, using either nipple cream/ brestmilk or something like vasaline will all work.

To help healing really you should avoid pumping or using nipple sheilds. Both can couse rubbing on the nipple and actualy make them more soure. Nipple shilds while they seem like a good idea can interfear with milk production as babies don't extract milk effectivly when using them.

Your GF really needs to get the latch sorted. prolonged feeding at the breast is not unuseall for young babies. The breast never completly empty as milk is produced on a supply and demand basis. In fact the only time they stop making milk is when your boobs feel overfull. Try not to suppliment as this can lead to a visous cycle of reduced supply. If supplimenting is needed there are other ways to give milk then with a bottle in order to aviod bottle prefferances. Either cup feeding or using a syring, but some one needs to show you how to do the cup feeding.

If your baby has become fussy and frustrated when put to the breast then try plenetly of skin to skin time without trying to feed. Baby needs to be more relaxed, doing things like taking a bath with the baby can all help.

I hope you get the help and support you need.

Article on baby thrush here. Another here. Has the baby any little white spots in her mouth that look like milk but don't rub away? Has the gf any spots on her nipples?

I think saggy will back me up on the nipple shields re. miggril's point about interfering with milk supply.
Sometimes, just being able to do it for a couple of days without the pain is just worth it. If you have the time to sit for hours with your baby feeding, she does get enough milk out in the end - especially if they are the soft shields like the Avent ones. I actually used them with my DD until she was 12 weeks, for every feed. She's absolutely fine, so was my milk production, so they can be perfectly ok.

Adam you asked about whether they help the baby's latch. I think opinions differ on this. It's easier for them to latch onto the shields, and even if their latch isn't great, it doesn't hurt in the same way as without the shields. I think sometimes the baby just needs to get a bit better and get the hang of the feeding and the latch comes in the end - the problem is that in the meantime, the mum's nipples get torn to shreds. In my experience (and I can only speak for myself) I found that eventually I got the hang of everything else like positioning, and one day we didn't need the shields at all.

I don't think they are recommended for long term use though, and my daughter did take ages on each feed, but we just kept trying without them and if she couldn't do it I went back to them until eventually one day we were away, and with no pain at all.

(hope that makes sense)

Also hope the move went well!
MrsSnaplegs let us know if you have any updates!

I had terribly sore nipples in the first couple of weeks of feeding my Ds, to the extent that I was bleeding into his mouth when he fed. Whenever we winded him he would regurgitate my blood - bit of a shock the first time as you can imagine.... Nipple shields didn't work for me - we got through it by expressing (first by hand then with a pump later) on one side for a few days. Then when that side was healed we swapped over. It means a few more days of pain on one side but if you can get through it it will get easier. Ds is now 7 weeks and feeding like a trooper pain-free.

Completely agree BTW with others about feeding to keep up supply - there will be days when production lags slightly behind demand, especially during a growth spurt, but if you persevere it quickly catches up. It just means some long feeds in the meantime.

I was unprepared for how hard bf can be at the start. Whatever you both decide don't feel guilty if you've tried your best.

Adam. Although I do agree with Pookamoo, Miggs and everyone else have given some very good advice. What you now need to do is cherry pick the parts that sound useful. The thread could easily devolve into a 'you do this, no you don't you do it like this' bunfight, as BF is involved, but basically everyone gives the advice that worked for them so it is all useful. I hope that things are going better for your GF, Chloe and you, (and if not, Miggs' telephone numbers are very useful) and I have to say that you sound like a marvellously supportive partner. They are both very lucky. keep up the good work, and let us know how things are going. {{sneaky unmumsnet hug of support}}