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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

How can I punnish my daughter for her behaviour? Nothing seems to work.

89 replies

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 17:40

Hi, My daughter is nearly 6. She's just messed herself and I've had to clean her up as she refuses to do it herself and probubly couldn't anyway. She hates being cleaned.
She got really angry while I was cleaning her and I have a saw finger at the moment, it's swollen and red (possibly chilblaine?) anyway she said to me "Which is your poorly finger?" I showed her and she grabbed it and squeezed it really hard.

I put her in her room and told her to stay there for 5 minutes. I've just gone in and said "Are you ready to appologise? and she said no. I told her she could stay in there until she does and she said "good, I want to stay here".

What can I do when this kind of disapline dosn't work? She's just sooo stubborn it untrue.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

OP posts:

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FattyArbuckel · 04/12/2010 19:27

mummyloveslucy sounds angry with her child about this which is unlikely to help lucy - I can understand a mother would find this difficult to deal with and am therefore suggesting that perhaps getting support for herself might be well advised in order to improve the relationship with the child.

OP asked for a different approach because punishment wasn't working but in reality seems only interested in different types of punishing behaviour - I am only trying to suggest that there are other ways forward that may be much more beneficial and enjoyable for both mother and child.

LynetteScavo · 04/12/2010 19:28

fatty, I think MLL wanted to regain control.

I really don't think it sounds like there is a lot of anger towards the child.....but towards the behaviour (soiling, the not wanting to be cleaned, and deliberately hurting). Quite understandably, IMO.

The only advice I have is not to force an apology in the future, but do let her know with gentle words if she hurts you. From your previous posts, I'm guessing that she is such a love that she will genuinely feel sorry she hurt you, and will apologise in her own time.

FattyArbuckel · 04/12/2010 19:28

OP I have linked to a cuople of ideas/books for you of alternative methods not involving punishing if you are interested

thisisyesterday · 04/12/2010 19:31

how do you normally clean her MLL? I wonder if there is a way that she wouldn't object to as much?

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 19:31

It can be extreamly draining, she'll soil herself up to abot 8 timeas a day, each time she tries to not let you change her. She'll run away, kick her legs and clench her bum cheeks to make it very hard.
She is very big for her age. She's 4 foot and 4.5 stone. She also extreamly strong. It's such a battle. I just want to be able to relax and enjoy her company, which I do in between but it's very draining.

OP posts:

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 19:34

I'm going to have to go and clean her again now. She's with her Grandma and apparently has had her hands in it too. Lovely!!!

OP posts:

FattyArbuckel · 04/12/2010 19:34

If you talk to her about changing her, what does she say about it?

Have you asked how she would like you to do it or if she would prefer to do it herself?

CarGirl · 04/12/2010 19:36

Does she make choices?

Could you try and give her choices about where she gets cleaned up and how? With wipes, with a shower.......

It seems like it's a huge issue to her - I wonder if school have been doing/saying something very negative about her soiling/wetting

I'm thinking she deliberately hurt you because this soiling issue is a huge deal in her life.

Have you given her the choice between pull ups/nappies/pants?

thisisyesterday · 04/12/2010 19:41

think cargirl has got it.

she is projecting the upset she is feeling at soiling herself and being cleaned onto you

basically, she wants you to feel how bad she is feeling. does that make sense?

i guess the thing to work on is the cleaning... but i don't know that i have any ideas for that.
a bath? bit annoying every single time though.

have any of the HCP's you've seen given you any ideas of how to deal with it?

CarGirl · 04/12/2010 19:56

Can you reward her for letting the clean up being done without a fight?

Have a discussion with her about the fact her body doesn't work properly at the moment and it isn't her fault. That part of being a big girl is her telling you the best way for her to get cleaned up - discuss options let her choose, perhaps give her 2 or 3 so she's not overwhelmed.

Next time remind her about the conversation and what was agreed. Hopefully clean up will be easier than usual and you can reward her with a well done sticker (this could be a surprise and perhaps not given everytime so it's not a habit IYSWIM)

You know Lucy's capabilities and comprehension. I don't think she is being stubborn I think she is reacting to situations and emotional feelings she can't cope with and has never verbalised to you.

Just my thoughts as one mum to another x

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:02

Thanks everyone. I've tried talking to her about it and she says "No one can clean my bottom or lady bit". She won't do it herself either. In the bath, she'll very quickly wipe the front but won't clean herself properly. She's always sore there which dosn't help. I tell her that she's saw because she won't let me clean her properly. This makes no difference though.

I try to bath her as much as possible but it's not always possible every time. I wonder if there's anything I could put in the bath water to clean her better?

OP posts:

LIZS · 04/12/2010 20:07

Good advice from cargirl . I think you are trying to do the right thing about her hurting you but along the way L has got confused about the reasoning. Her apology won't be meaningful because in her mind it won't relate to a specific event but a confused accumulation of emotions and actions she cannot control. If it were just ehr squeezing your finger and your reaction to it your tactic may be fine. It may not be that she is stubborn but that she genuinely isn't comprehending ie. the need to clean up after an accident so resisting interference and embarrassment.

CarGirl · 04/12/2010 20:07

You should have her checked for strep A or anything else to make sure it's nothing else making her sore.

Give her 2 options so that she has to choose one:

Mummy clean you in the bathroom or in your bedroom?

Mummy use wipes and then cotton wool or wipes and then a warm flannel?

Mummy put on the pink or the white cream?

After I've washed my hands shall we have a cuddle or a story?

Have you told her that it's not her fault?

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:19

I have told her it's not her fault, but the school tell her it is. Well, they say things like "we don't want any accidents here, the only place it should go is the toilet" etc. They sound very disaproving when talking to her about it.

OP posts:

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:21

Good idea about the 2 choices for each thing. It's tricky when she does it out and about though. It would work well at home.

What is strep A ??

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CarGirl · 04/12/2010 20:22

Please don't send her back, take her in for party day or whatever. Tell your mother (I am really p'd off with that school now) that the school is actually a huge part of the problems you're now having with her.

Tell Lucy that the school is wrong, they are wrong about the ballet and that is why she isn't going back

LIZS · 04/12/2010 20:24

@ the school. tbh I'd be inclined to give her permission to answer back "It's not my fault" "You should help me". Sadly they have done you no favours in their lack of sympathy.

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:25

My husband get very wound up about it, he gets quite angry with her at times saying things like "this is completely unacceptable" and "You shouldn't be doing this at your age, none of your friends do this".
I've told him many times that she can't help it, but I don't think he believes me. I think he refuses to see that she has anything the matter with her.
When we went to see the HV the other day, she began with asking how Lucy is. Before I could answer, he said "She's great thanks". I then went on to tell the truth.

OP posts:

CarGirl · 04/12/2010 20:28

Please tell your Dh that he is making things worse!!!!

Does he not come with you to the specialist appts?

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:31

I know, I'm annoyed with the school too. She only has 4 days left, and that includes her play, a party, carrol singing and a presentation. She's had her last ballet lesson thankfully. The parents were envited to watch. She did very well I thought, she paid attention and wasn't the worst behaved by far.
I enjoyed watching her dancing, it's the first time I can be sure she's had a full lesson. They wouldn't have her crying in the changing room in front of the other parents. Very bad for PR.

OP posts:

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:34

Yes, he comes with me. He contributes all the positives and sometimes tells them funny things she's said or done etc.

I don't know why he is like this?

OP posts:

CarGirl · 04/12/2010 20:42

Denial - It's hard to accept that your child is less than "perfect", isn't "normal", isn't developing....worries for her future, sadness etc etc

I think it's especially hard as you don't really seem to have a clear cut "label" it seems almost that there are several things going on that confuse the issue.

Now you are liberated from school fees, please look again at some of the things I've told you about previously such as neuro development delay, treatment isn't a cure but will help her reach her potential much more quickly than not treating IYSWIM even without a diagnosis.

Big hugs to your little girl and you.

autodidact · 04/12/2010 20:44

Sympathies, mll. Sounds very tough. Could you ask your GP for a referral onto a special needs psychologist for some advice?

What's happening with schools? Has she got a place at one of the state schools you liked yet? They will be looking to pull in support and advice to manage her needs so the sooner the better really. Would it be worth applying to your local authority for a statement?

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:50

Thank you, I've aked him about it again and he's said that part of it is frustration and not knowing how or what to do to help her. He also said that he dosn't believe that she could possibly mess herself without knowing about it and that he's seen her deliberatly pushing one out, then saying "don't look at me", so she knows what she's doing.

OP posts:

Original poster

mummyloveslucy · 04/12/2010 20:52

I am going to get her loads of help now.

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