Please please help, a family on the edge - I'm getting desperate

[MrsBubsDeVere]

Can someone offer any words of wisdom? We really really are a family at breaking point all because of our 6 year old daughter.

Since she started school 12 months ago her behaviour has got progressively worse. Whilst she was off school during the 6 weeks holiday, her behaviour improved slightly. But, since she has gone back to school she has become a different child.

From the minute she opens her eyes, she is nasty, obnoxious, shouting she hates us and that she wants mummy and daddy to leave home, the other night when I sent her to bed at 6pm for bullying her sister, as she was going upstairs she shouted 'I'll make you pay for this mummy'.

She used to be fantastic at going to bed, she used to go at 7 and go to sleep straight after her film finishes, now she is up and down constantly, wanting more and more drinks instead of the usual one.

Tonight for instance she went to bed at 7, she asked for a video then changed her mind 3 times, in the end dh said tough you have the one on now or nothing and came down, so, she trashed her bedroom climbed up to a very high shelf (it nearly touches the ceiling) got her remote and started to change it herself and then pressed the wrong button and came down herself (She KNOWS she is not allowed to mess with ANY electrical appliance). Obviously she then started kicking everything in site screaming and throwing a tantrum shouting that she hates us etc.

Dh and I have just sat down, we have thrown our evening meal in the bin and I really feel that we are a family on the edge, he behaviour is so out of hand dh and I don't know how to cope and we are frightened for her little sister as she bullies her all the time.

Please please help, I haven't even changed my name for this so some of the ladies I speak to on MSN will no, I have probably missed things out as I am also in such a state, crying etc, I don't know what to do and already dread tomorrow morning.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firtly sorry you are having such a bad time

The first thing i would do is take her tv and video out of her bedroom which will then make her realise that behaving the way she has done is not going to work.

is there something at school upsetting her? my ds behaved very like this and it turned out he was being picked on at school. he didnt become an angel overnight when we got it sorted but it was a start.

also, how do you discipline her when she is naughty? i have found that negative discipline just makes the situation worse. we now have loads of praise and encouragement for good behaviour (inc sticker chart) and bad behaviour is punished with naughty step, discussed, but then forgotten. negative reinforcement just seems to bring out the negative in him.

i would also ask school how she behaves there and ask what help they can provide, if any. if they draw a blank try hv or school nurse

You say her behaviour become worse when she started school, is she unhappy at school or is something on her mind?

posts x GG sorry.

We tried sticker charts a while ago and she tore them down and ripped them up. We try the naughty step and she keeps banging on the door, hitting the cat when he comes downstairs, shouting screaming and picking at the wallpaper.

Oh dear. You poor things How is she at school? Sounds like it could be an extreme attention thing to me.

Some ideas off top of head:
1 I think you and dh need to develop a rhinocerous hide and take no notice of `"I'll make you pay" type comments- tho easier said than done I know.

2 I'd get rid of the telly and video in her bedroom both as a consequence for tonights behaviour and because it will help her sleep better. Then you and your dh need to band togther in calmness, returning her to her bed without comment every time she gets up. Could take a few nights of hell but it will work if you stick to it exactly and keep a firm lid on the frustration that arises from following it through.

3 I'd make sure any bullying to her sister/violence resulted in a time out.

4. I'd try and notice every tiny thing she does right and praise her for it

5. I'd try and spend 15 minutes per day with her doing something that she chooses without directing her play

6. If none of this works after a few weeks I'd go to the GP and ask for help.

Really hope that whatever you do, things get better.

take everything she has out of her room except for her bed.

each night she is well behaved she gets something put back in of her choosing each night she isnt you take something away.

the trick is to stick to a punishment and not to make it too long term at that age. it needs to have an immediate effect.

so with sitting on the step i would say you have 5 mins on the step. even if she kicks the cat let her off the step after 5 minutes with a smile and an air about you thats says " lets start again"
when she misbehaves again same thing again. and again and again.

i would do the first one. warn her this weekend what is going to happen. there will be an almighty shock when she comes home from school monday to find her stuff on the landing. as promised.

if she rips up star charts make them again

naughty step is tough to get going but does work when she realises you are not going to give in. she is 6 so gets 6 minutes. imo that is 6 minutes of sitting quietly, not 6 minutes of messing about. it might take an hour the first time or two but if you are consistent she will get the message (oooh i sound like supernanny!).

we had a few days of ripped wallpaper, kicking walls, leaving black marks, trashing room etc. then he realised he would be better off sitting quietly because that way its over quicker and he doesnt have to tidy up the mess afterwards (if its something they cant do like replacing wallpaper, get them to do a job like washing the floor which will take an equivalent amount of time)

sticker charts might work once you get the initial ranting over with. there was a thread earlier about them, lots of discussion about whether sad faces help or not. they dont for my son, they just make him feel like he has failed so he gives up. maybe just good stickers?

i would def check out if something is worrying her at school. i find that going in with the opening line 'i already know whats going on but i want to see you to tell me the truth' coupled with a menacing stare gets a lot of info out of them that they would otherwise not offer

also agree with lsm - especially about letting what she says go over your head. as the adult you need to stay calm or the whole thing will explode. 'i hate you mum' is often responded to with 'i love you tho and always will'. it does drive him mad, but i want him to know that i will never stop loving him whatever he does.

I think its been said before but is there a problem at school. I know from experience that children who are being bullied or having problems at school often act out at home and sometimes pass the behaviours they are receiving on the people they love the most. Or perhaps she's feeling some kind of stress because the work is hard or pressure of the work. The leap between reception and year 1 is often difficult and year 2 is often quite pressure for the children. Finally perhaps she's just tired, an earlier bedtime might help. When you have talked to her about her behaviour are you getting any clues?? Maybe you could just take her out alone and do something with her ALONE where you need to communicate alot and give her the opportunity to talk to you. I'm sure whatever is bothing her she wants to tell you, just doesn't know how?

ask the school if they could refer you to the behaviour support team who can offer advice for managing difficult behaviours.

FFS!!!! Things get worse, dh won't agree to taking her television out of her room saying it won't do anything.

She doesn;t show any signs of having a problem at school, the only thing tat she says is that she doesn't get on with a girl who sits on her table and she keeps saying stuff to DD.

If I ask why she has done something she just laughs, shrugs her shoulders and says she doesn't know.

take it while he is out and stash it at your mums or something! the most important thing you can do is back each other up so she knows she cant play you off against each other. i would be tempted to leave him to it next time she has a paddy if thats his attitude [evil grin]

one way of getting stuff out of her is by asking non direct questions while she is doing something else. so you could be sat playing with dough and ask her who she played with at break time, what they did etc. might also be worth asking teacher to keep an eye on what happens with this girl. explain you are having problems and would just like to know more about her relationship with her incase it is causing her problems. bullying can be verbal, and my ds had a lot of self esteem issues because of what some nasty little brat was saying to him - possibly a reason why she would push you away from her?

What does dh think you should do?

yeah i dont understand - why would you continue to sanction a childs bad behaviour by allowing a luxury in her room?

I'm afraid that is DH for you, his view is, he bought her it and he is not putting it somewhere else to rot she might as well get use out of it.

Agree with lots of the stuff that's already been said, and am just popping up with my semi-regular recommendation of a book called The Manipulative Child (Honestly, people will start thinking I'm on commission). The technique they use is similar to the Supernanny naughty step thing, but the biggest difference is that it isn't a minute for every year of their age, but the smallest amount of time it takes them to calm down and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. So, if she says something horrible to you as she's walking upstairs, you would call her back and tell her to go and sit/stand somewhere quiet (doesn't have to be any special place) until she has calmed down which may take 20 seconds or 1 hour. Once she is calm you re-direct her (quietly and calmly through gritted teeth if you're anything like me, but with a pleasant smile) to carry on what she was doing. You're supposed to do this technique as many times in a day as you need to, which is another way in which it differs from the Supernanny one, I think.

The book is worth reading generally, but this is the main technique they recommend in a nutshell. We've found it has made a spectacular difference in our house, because I had ended up in a hideous vicious circle of arguing and reasoning with my eldest DD, and it's put an end to all that. Sorry that you feel so fed up at the moment.

i hesitate to be alarmist but (as well as the boundaries to set at home) you need to find out what is wrong at school - it could be something nasty - perhaps not just bullying from another child but something unpleasant with an adult. i know that's a worst-case scenario but do try all your can to help her to talk about anything that's upset her. i speak from experience (my own, not as a parent).

but she could have it back in a few days if she behaves! how long do you reckon it would take him to replace the plug if someone accidentaly chopped it off?

Well... maybe that is part of the problem? What are his preferred ways of addressing bad behaviour? I think you need to sit down and work out a plan of action that you both agree on and can follow through. But personally I really do think tvs in young children's rooms often lead to trouble.

I would second taking the tv and video out of her room, not as a sanction but so she can get to sleep more peacefully. Difficult if dh won't back you up, but really think that would be a start. Also, could you talk to her teacher (without your dd knowing) just to see if there is something underlying at school.

Other than that, reward good behaviour, ignore bad behaviour (unless it needs a sanction), don't give in to tantrums, let her earn privileges and luxuries.

Jeezzzzz laligo, something like THAT had never crossed my mind.

How horrible for you. I admire your speaking out about this as I think we all feel ashamed to admit we don't know how to handle our children.

Have you tried phoning Parentline? They can help you think it through more calmly and will not judge you. Their number is 0808 800 2222. I hope things are better for you tomorrow.

I have a 7 year old dd who is an angel at school but a complete nightmare at home so at parents evening I spoke to her teacher who was shocked to her of her behaviour and gave me a chart to be filled in each day regarding my dd's behaviour if she had 3 out of 5 smily faces by the end of the week her teacher gave her a reward - going into another class to help for the last 30mins of the day was a good one. since she went back this time and became a junior we have warned her if the behaviour starts again we will see her new teacher and ask her to do the same - obviously she doesn't want that and has turned a corner.

sorry really don't mean to scare you and it's almost certainly nothing like that - schools these days much more controlled! but this sounds like a big character change and closely associated with school - so she it sounds like needs to be understood/listened to, not just "retrained" IYSWIM

I am sorry but i totally disagree with your dh, tv in young childrens room are bad.
I put a tv/video in my ds's room when he was very young and all i had was problem after problem, so one night dh decided the tv/video was going and we have never looked back i think the worst thing you can do is put a tv in a childs bedroom. IMO.