why is my son insistent on playing with his poo?

[eandz]

Background information:

He will be 26 months on on the 6th of December. His therapist has classified him as 'delayed' with his speech; but he does have some words (not 50+ words but around 20-30), we use makaton sign language tapes and classes and we take him to therapy twice a week. He's had a lengthy battle with reflux (he was taking omeprazole+renitidine+baby gaviscon+neocate (because he also had a milk intolerance). He is allergic to eggs and red fruits. He is on a limited diet, and I do work with him quite constantly regarding food, speech, play etc. I am holding off on Potty training until he can communicate to me that he is ready to try. He does usually sign to me when he wants his diaper changed, but only after his diaper is dirty.

(I don't know if any of that is relevant or not, but I just thought I'd make sure to mention it). I am a sahm and to keep myself from going a little loopy I've set a pretty regimented routine. DS is normally a very well behaved little boy despite all his discomfort.

*

Around 6:30 every evening DS has his free time, where he can choose (after he is in his PJ's) to either play with a toy, pick a book to read or watch tv. The last few nights he's picked TV, but while he's watching he sneakily does a poo (he used to poo in the mornings until three nights ago)and then decides to play with it. Smearing it on the TV, around the stand and into the carpet. The thing is, he does it soo fast that I don't know how/why it's happening and I watch DS like a hawk.

So, have you experienced this? what do I do? and Why is DS doing this?

It's interesting to see your perspective, math, having been a mum on both sides of the Atlantic :) I have trouble with US parenting styles ... I was in heavy demand in France as a 'English Nanny' and have heard from friends, who continued with nannying and went to the US, that the same attitude is equally valued but framed differently!

The French thought we were stricter than them - because we expect a child to take responsibility for itself (dressing & feeding, etc) more completely than they did/do. Americans found my colleagues more child-friendly, because we believe in learning through doing - so that's really just another take on the same thing.

Sorry: this post should really have been in the nanny forum. It struck me that the extent of the problem is largely a cultural one, though (I think many of your other respondents feel the same way, eandz). If your day were less time-structured, the poo-painting wouldn't be such an issue as you'd have time to anticipate, allow and clean up as appropriate.

If it's still going on, you might want to think a bit more about whether DS is trying to rebel, in his toddler way, against being channeled so thoroughly. Play - including messy play - is a huge part of a toddler's learning process. Sometimes you just have to let them muddle around: this is why play centres have sandpits & muddy pools!

Would it be possible for you to ease up a little - not on the poo (I still recommend a quick wash & done) - but on the overall scheduling? He sounds like a creative chap, which doesn't mean he needs 'educating' so much as 'allowing', if that makes any sense?

Maybe you know another mother with an explorative toddler? Could you take it in turns to give the pair of them a couple of hours 'dirty play' in the back yard, the kitchen or bathroom?

Apologies for wordy post {blush] Am definitely ducking out of this now.

Hello Ladies!

The following might be jumbled but I am answering the questions as posed, and I'm doing so to gain further insight, thank you for helping me out and being patient with me!

I talk about the day with DS in the morning simply to talk to him, engage him in conversation any way I can. He usually makes a very good effort to communicate whichever way he can. He loves to pick out his food for the day and loves picking out his clothes. He won't wear them unless he's picked them.

I know, it does sound like an awful lot of classes, doesn't it? The classes are prescribed by his speech therapist, but after going to them I've realized that most children DS's age who are in these classes have similarly vigorous schedules, simply because I keep running into the same women/children.

The park does offer him his unstructured play time, we live in a flat so it's the only place he can go and explore the outside world, I know it's unfortunate, but it's really all I've got. I do get a little depressed about the lack of space I have for my son to play, and the fact that he enjoys his daily park adventure I keep taking him.

I do feel like there are too many different ways of communication being directed at DS and if it gets confusing for me, surely it must be confusing for him. His therapist feels like he might be on the Autistic Spectrum, I simply don't know. I have tried to relax the morning routine quite often, but he does enjoy sticking to it. I also feel like I need another therapists opinion, because I don't feel like there is that much wrong with DS. He was slow to respond to his name, and slow to listen to commands, but he's fine in both regards now and I feel like even though his therapist has classified as 'delayed' perhaps I shouldn't really let it be an issue? Everyone in the family including my DH is concerned regarding his speech though.

For example, after breakfast he'll wait for me at the kitchen baby gate so we can pick his snacks, he'll make sure to get his lunch box out of his cupboard to fill it. If I say 'Not today', then he will ask very clearly 'but why?' (it's the cutest phrase of his!) On weekends he knows that it's not the same schedule because the whole family (DH and my sisters will be home) so he is quite content with. As far as reading books, we do read books together throughout the day, usually he'll pick one when DH has come home and they read through it right before he's in the bath. Sometimes they'll read it right after bathtime while DS is getting dressed in his pjs.

To be fair though, I do feel like he gets a few hours during the week to just be himself. And I don't feel like he is distressed with the schedule because there have been times when he's just not feeling well and he'll sign 'tired, home' or will say 'naptime' or 'home'. I'm more than happy to try a few less classes a week to see if this makes a further improvement on his overall mood. His playdates twice a week do offer him to have some time with another child his age.

(I'll have to starting next week anyway when these classes end).

Generally he's a well behaved little boy and quite happy.

Today, he did not try to play with his poo, but I'm not sure if it's because he couldn't get to it. Although he didn't make an effort to get out of his clothes at all. Which I think is good. I just hope he forgets about it.

this post is in no real order I'm just soo tired right now.

That's a lovely reply, and I'm sure you'll have more feedback from the other mums tomorrow, UK time :)

I'm a little bit suspicious of your therapist - sorry! The ability and desire to choose his own outfits and lunch stuff are healthy signs of independence & cognitive ability, imo. Again, I'm open to correction - however, I'm thinking about some so-called 'difficult' French kids I looked after, who'd been labelled with all kinds of developmental problems by their paediatric psychologists (very French) but were simply not being shown enough respect for their individual abilites, nor sufficiently challenged in the basics. In other words: they were bright, but trying to live down to their pathologisation!

It's much too soon to leap to conclusions and I'm taking a huge liberty here ... I wonder if you encountered less of a poo prblem today because you're paying more attention to him & his interests, thanks to your thread?? Like I say, far too early to draw conclusions; just thought I might encourage that thought in your mind ...
Whatever, long may your days continue to be happier :)

yes I agree with Maryz and Grace (am both slightly suspicious of your therapist and think it's a shame that you are so worried about what they are saying). I tend think that if you take a child to a specialist they are likely to find something because they are measuring against an average (which rarely exists).

Personally I think whether you do or don't have a routine can be ignored and you don't need to justify yourself for the things you do with your day - it sounds a very happy and balanced one to me, albeit quite organised. However if ds starts playing with his poo and it worries you then, as others have said, perhaps consider that it could be a control issue and relax some areas. I do think there is a lot of therapy and intervention here for a very young child. How do you personally feel about his level of communication? Can you keep in the back of your mind that there may be an issue and wait till he's in pre school, ask teachers for feedback after the first term? Maybe treat it more holistically as part of his wider development as they will be able to observe him in a social setting and when you are not there.

I agree with maryz. Just look at what you are doing well, you have a happy kid with good friends and a nice active life. He sounds like a happy little boy to me, enjoy this time, it goes really fast. x

Your DS sounds like a bright boy to me asking 'why not?' and trying to interact with you as he does, plus taking an interest in his snacks and clothes are all really fine for his age, and make me wonder why the therapist thinks he may be on the autism spectrum to any noticeable degree. Maybe you could chat with him about something other than the day's activities (weather, squirrels, cars going past outside) if you think he seems too attached to the routine but again, children this age like what's familiar and derive a feeling of security from predictability. (Even a day that is not full of different organised activities can be predictable and afford this secure feeling, however. I agree with your observation that there may be too many different ways of communication being directed at your DS, and probably some of it in the classes involves the expectation of complying with instructions, which can grate on a 2 yo.)

If he makes eye contact, seems to interpret facial expressions and tones of voice, and can fit into the general atmosphere (as he seems well able to do given his generally pleasant mood and ability to play with his little friends, or alongside them) then I think this idea of autism is . I'm assuming his hearing has been tested by the speech therapist, but I wouldn't be too concerned about him being slow in responding to his name or seeming to ignore commands.

20-30 words for a child who has just turned 2, with what seems like a desire to use them in conversation with you, an ability to pay attention to little books and presumably take an interest in the pictures, all sound like a normal development curve.

If your local elementary school district has an early intervention team I think they would be able to set your mind at rest judging by what you've said here.

Extended family members can be quite unhelpful and unsupportive sometimes, and can pathologise elements of development that are perfectly within the range of normal, depending on their own levels of anxiety, or how much time they have on their hands, or even as a result of the dynamic within a household where a mother will be doing a perfectly good job with a child, but can be kept off balance or become the 'usual suspect' when people cast around for something to snipe about. (I've seen this happen with an exSIL in the family of my exILs. She could do nothing right with her children, all were labelled as slow or rude -- all baloney)

Your comment about running into the same parents and children everywhere rings a bell -- I used to take the older DCs to the local YMCA for swim and gym when they were small, they also did ice skating (important survival skill in the frozen wastes...) then park district sports a few years later, and we were always running into the same people. Funny to see the strapping boys when oldest DD started high school, and recall them having their hair dried and being helped with their socks and shoes by their mothers at the Y all those years before .

I had three DCs when we moved into our house; yes, the park is a sanity saver. I used to let them spend hours in the bath too, with bubbles aplenty, and I recall some sort of bath crayons they used to decorate the tiles around the tub. We used to go down to the courtyard and paint the concrete with water and food colouring, plus chalk. But not in winter.

Relax and "enjoy this time" is such a great suggestion.

It's day two of no poo! I won't be naive and let my guard down, but for now the relief is just flooding over me. Mumsnet is a godsend!

When I first seeing the therapist, I really felt like there might be something wrong (I failed to spot DS reflux early on, and just put it down to normal gas). There was, and most likely be a lot of self doubt in my forseeable future (it's just who I am). My mother in law who lives here in London, and my own mother (back in America) do feel that there is a problem. Not really sure how I'm going to tackle the therapy issue.

However, now I just don't feel like my son has that much of an issue. He may not be saying complete sentences, drawing circles or naming all the animals at the zoo, but I feel quite happy with how he is doing. He is the first grandchild on both sides, so he's under the proverbial microscope. I'm not really worried right now about his development. I feel like if his improvement stalls, I'll start to worry again.

I don't have any other children to gauge how he's doing and the playground has a varying range of children his age, they are all so different.

Thank you all for your help and insightful input.

That's great.

I would find it very hard in your situation and actually feel paranoid about my child with both sets of GPs saying things

Try not not let their opinion bother you, he sounds happy, healthy and very clever imo. Perfectly normal and on track.

My parenting is more like Maryz too

:)