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why is my son insistent on playing with his poo?

60 replies

eandz · 27/11/2010 23:04

Background information:

He will be 26 months on on the 6th of December. His therapist has classified him as 'delayed' with his speech; but he does have some words (not 50+ words but around 20-30), we use makaton sign language tapes and classes and we take him to therapy twice a week. He's had a lengthy battle with reflux (he was taking omeprazole+renitidine+baby gaviscon+neocate (because he also had a milk intolerance). He is allergic to eggs and red fruits. He is on a limited diet, and I do work with him quite constantly regarding food, speech, play etc. I am holding off on Potty training until he can communicate to me that he is ready to try. He does usually sign to me when he wants his diaper changed, but only after his diaper is dirty.

(I don't know if any of that is relevant or not, but I just thought I'd make sure to mention it). I am a sahm and to keep myself from going a little loopy I've set a pretty regimented routine. DS is normally a very well behaved little boy despite all his discomfort.

*

Around 6:30 every evening DS has his free time, where he can choose (after he is in his PJ's) to either play with a toy, pick a book to read or watch tv. The last few nights he's picked TV, but while he's watching he sneakily does a poo (he used to poo in the mornings until three nights ago)and then decides to play with it. Smearing it on the TV, around the stand and into the carpet. The thing is, he does it soo fast that I don't know how/why it's happening and I watch DS like a hawk.

So, have you experienced this? what do I do? and Why is DS doing this?

OP posts:
ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 28/11/2010 01:03

Those all in one pjs put on back to front are good too

eandz · 28/11/2010 01:05

I can make bath time less fun by taking away his colorful soaps.

I can also let him play with playdough/bake some bread and let him play with real dough.

I can definitely find harder to take off clothing. perhaps pajama bottoms with a bodysuit that snaps together from behind?

I would try the tape, but as clumsy as I am, I'm afraid of getting it on his skin and having to pull it off.

Maryz I appreciate your input so far, thank you and I appreciate your input too ApocalypseCheeseToastie and BelledeChoc

OP posts:
JuanManuelFanjo · 28/11/2010 01:10

Seems like he might need to keep his hands busy whilst he's watching the TV. Play dough sounds like a great plan. Do you have a little table he can sit at in front of the TV and play with the playdough at the same time?

If you don't fancy that idea what about something else to occupy his hands? Maybe beads on a string, like a big chunky necklace with space to slide the beads around iyswim? He could play with that on your knee whilst watching?

Hope you get this resolved soon. Must be hideous to clean up!

eandz · 28/11/2010 01:19

I always catch it in time before it's a mess. I can usually get him clean and place him in his highchair so i can do a quick and thorough clean.

I do have a table and set of chairs for him to sit at with his playdough.

I'm just wondering a if this means I'm not paying enough attention to him-- if it has to do with his delayed speech, if he doesn't like free time and wants to have a schedule wind down activity.

OP posts:
maryz · 28/11/2010 01:24

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RespectTheDoughnut · 28/11/2010 01:26

I have nothing to add - there's some very good advice here, I think, but I've just read this & it makes me feel really sad that you're worried about not paying enough attention to him (I'm obviously becoming over-tired & should go to bed Wink) - toddlers are fast. & nappies are generally fairly easy to access if you're so inclined. You sound like a lovely, attentive mummy.

mathanxiety · 28/11/2010 01:38

So at 6:30 every day he has 'free time' and the rest of the time "to keep myself from going a little loopy I've set a pretty regimented routine. DS is normally a very well behaved little boy despite all his discomfort."?

Is there any reason beside your needs why his life is so regimented?

I ask because I have an idea that he has found the one thing that he can do that is totally out of your control and he is doing it because it may be his only way to be autonomous and actually in charge of you for a change and throwing a spanner into the regimen you seem to have going.

Apart from giving him plenty of opportunities to have sensory experiences throughout the day (sand and mud and water play, plus playdoh etc) I would recommend easing up on the regimentation a lot, in fact throwing whatever schedule you have out the window. Apart from mealtimes.

eandz · 28/11/2010 01:40

Ok ladies.

here is my game plan:

Tomorrow I will continue like normal

except before bathtime I'll let him have some time with playdough.

he will be dressed in impossible to remove pj's

when it comes to 6:30 (his wind down time) I will give him a choice between his puzzles or a soft toy+story and remove TV from the options. He's only offered tv on fri/sat/sun and goes without the rest of the week. I never should have offered it on a thursday.

if he manages to try to get to his poo again I will offer playdough again.

I really feel this will work. He's only 2, he can't be THAT much smarter than me (yet)

xx girls who have been helping me so far, I really appreciate it.

and if anyone else has gone through this, please tell me about it.

OP posts:
eandz · 28/11/2010 01:47

mathanxiety

our routine is regimented because, until recently he was taking 5 different medications to control his reflux several different times a day. now that he's not on his medication, we just have mealtimes/playdates/classes and his speech therapy/therapy assignments (like making new flashcards together etc).

OP posts:
GraceAwayInAManger · 28/11/2010 02:29

My sibs all went through this phase - I must have done, too - including voracious poo-eating Blush We dealt with it by being disgusted, though I don't know if that's frowned upon these days? Loud yells of "eeeuw!" with facial expressions, and rapid removal of child from said substance.

I had a charge that plastered himself with poo at every opportunity, but he was younger than yours; I usually managed to get him in the sink before he'd completed his body painting. I'm in two minds about the cold shower thing. The respondents on that forum seemed to be taking very varied approaches - a 'punishing' cold shower (a favourite in the US, I gather) seems inappopriate but, if they're simply talking about a no-fun, pragmatic wash then it seems a good idea.

I should think the suggestions you've had here, about more dirty play, will be very constructive. It also struck me that your DS has had problems with stuff going in, staying in and coming out of his body all his young life, what with the reflux and lactose intolerance, plus his frustrations with communication. In that light, it almost seems normal for him to revel in something he can get out easily! (Not that I'm saying you should encourage him, obviously.)

A combination of messy play opportunities and bish-bosh washes will probably sort him out double-quick :)

If all fails, you'll know he's going to grow up to be the new Gillian McKeith ...

mathanxiety · 28/11/2010 03:02

Playdates and classes on top of the therapy and assignments sounds like a lot. Are the classes necessary for therapy? Does he have time for completely 'being himself' sort of play, for instance in a park where he doesn't have to share things, use an indoor voice, moderate his behaviour according to the surroundings? If he's trying to play with other children while he's not very verbal, he may be experiencing too much of a challenge.

How does he react to having the medicines administered? Have there been times when it was hard to get him to take medicine? If you've had to make him take medicine when he didn't want to, then autonomy over his own bodily functions may be an issue with him (poo being sometimes seen by young children as part of themselves).

When DD3 was younger she had to take allergy medicine orally every day and tended to refuse more often than not, but it was vital that she took it as she had severe seasonal and mould allergies -- she had some control of toileting issues to deal with as well as food refusal (I had to deal with it too...) and I linked the two.

The cold shower idea doesn't sound one bit nice or reasonable as an approach.

maryz · 28/11/2010 08:52

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JuanManuelFanjo · 28/11/2010 09:35

Brilliant advice from mathanxiety and maryz. I think relaxing his routine is a great idea.

eandz · 28/11/2010 13:37

The playdates are his free time, usually with his favorite friends, they ask for each other so I'm quite happy that he's got friends and very happy to let him have his playdates, we only have 2 afternoons a week where he can have them anyway. The boys go in seperate directions except during snack times where they sit nicely and eat. He has ample time/space to run around and be himself. Even if we skip on the routine, he keeps to it. Asks for food at the same time, naps at the same time. Gets into his pram to go out at the same times. It's just been apart of our Mother/Son dynamic for his whole life that the routine just keeps going.

He always refuses medication. When he gets sick, we do have to hold him down. He was better with the reflux medication because he would be in terrible pain if he didn't take it on time. So eventually he started to make sure to have his medicine before playtime so he could eat after wards. My poor DS sounds soo much older than his 26 months.

OP posts:
bullet234 · 28/11/2010 13:45

Ds2 is five years old, autistic and still does this on occasion. He usually gets the walls, the carpet, light switch, stairgate some toys and a couple of books.

PrematureEjoculation · 28/11/2010 13:57

DD did this at about the same age. I had already got her dry during the day, but she insisted on removing her night nappy and playing with the poo-contents! - the solution was to get to her to poo on the potty too, and reward her heavily for it, and ask her to do a poo before going to bed every night. That worked.

I still bathed her after every occurence - you can't not do so, and agree that you should react as little as possible to the mess.

she was quite speech delayed but that went away when she went to nursery aged 3. Personally i think it's more that toddlers like to make a mess, and a smelly mess is the best kind.

Teaandchristmascakeplease · 28/11/2010 19:34

My son 22 months and has a fascination with his poo and says very little. It's getting to the stage that I do not bath him until he has done his poo after dinner. As it's not worth it to bath him until then.

My boy does it in the bath though everyday Angry And then tries to fiddle with it if I do not get him out pronto, as his poo seems to separate in there too quickly.

eandz · 28/11/2010 21:13

eh.

i put him in some seriously tough clothing this evening. gave him play dough (an untimed amount too!) but at 6:30 when he'd done his poo he tried to do everything in his power to get his clothes off.

i changed his diaper in the nick of time, but he really really wanted to play with it. i gave him extra time afterwards for the playdough, but that really didn't seem to satisfy him.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 28/11/2010 21:29

What do you do with him on a daily basis apart from his free time twice a week at the playdates?

I'm intrigued by the references to timing. Why are you timing his activities?

It's relatively easy to change a young child's habits from highly regimented to more casual, and the other way round. You do it gradually over the course of about two weeks. Most young children will get hungry and want to nap around the same time every day (most adults are creatures of routine where eating and sleeping are concerned too) but keeping time for other activities is just a matter of habit and this can be changed.

maryz · 28/11/2010 21:40

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

manitz · 28/11/2010 22:16

hi my ds is same age as yours. He doesn't do this but he does enjoy doing things that he finds funny and I don't. Most of them involve jumping from heights, playing in the ashes of the fire, mud in the garden and he coloured himself purple the other day. Generally i think he quite likes my reaction and otherwise i just think it's exploration.

He might like an easel and some paints, especially if he likes smearing stuff everywhere. Maybe he's going to be an artist...

My ds also has quite a regulated life as i work pt and my older two have a lot of extracurricular activities. so between school pickups, childcare and ferrying ds doesn't have a lot of r and r. if you are in a position to relax a little it might be nice before you have to be more regulated as life takes over and your son gets older.

It is so worrying when you have food probs when they are really little. Dd1 was allergic to dairy and failed to thrive. We had to be quite organised as we had to take food with us when we were out as so many things have dairy in them. It is difficult to stop worrying as they get older as you sort of get into a habit of it.

Fwiw, your ds speech sounds about normal to me. Is there a way of reducing the number of speech therapy sessions? 2 a week sounds like a lot especially if there is homework too.

eandz · 29/11/2010 02:31

Yes ladies, I am American.

His routine is pretty basic, the only reason we stick to it is because it's easy and allows us to get all of DS needs in as well as my own.

Mondays and Fridays our schedules are
7:00 wake up/brush teeth (he loves to brush hs teeth!
7:30 breakfast, I usually talk to him about the day and what we're supposed to be doing. He requires a lot of information or else he'll feel a little insecure about the day.

8:45 we clean up, and get dressed. Light chores, he helps with picking out his clothing, sometimes he'll help get his food ready for the day.
9:30 we'll practice some of his lessons go over his flashcards

10:30 morning walk if we don't need to run errands like grocery shopping. He has his first snack of the day in his pram while we're out.
11:00 we'll go to the park for a while
12:30 home for lunch and sometimes nap, we're home until 2
2:00 we go to mommy baby yoga
3:30 usually after yoga the kids go and play together He usually snacks throughout the class-- Lately though he's been sleeping through the class
4:30 Home. Every other Monday we host a one hour play date, Fridays, DS goes to another house for a play date.
5:30 Home, DS has dinner
6:00-6:30 bath time
6:30-7:30 wind down time
He's usually asleep at around 7:45

Tuesdays and Thursdays
the only differences are
After the park we're home by 12:30 we don't leave till about 3:00 for his therapy which is an hour long till 4
4:15 and then we go to a music rhyme time class around the corner until 5:15ish.
5:30 we get home and DS has dinner but he doesn't finish eating till about 6:10
he gets a bath, and then play time.

Wednesdays are his fun days
No therapy
After we get home from the park, his first class is at 3:00-3:45 (Football)
then at 4:00 he has a music class till about 5:00.

Home at 5:30 and everything is the same.

Saturdays:
Family days, so we go out for a walk in the mornings and just see where we end up during the day. Usually home by dinner time and we all pack his lunch/snacks together in the morning while we're having breakfast at the table. DH usually handles bath times, dinner time and full weekend duty.

Sundays:
it's cartoon days, we get ready for the week/see mil/get ready for week. very lazy.

He has 4 diaper changes a day usually his poo diaper was at 10am, but now he poos at 6:30pm

7am diaper change

  • 10am poo change (until this week) 3pm diaper change 6pm Diaper change *6:30 poo change (new poo time)

i hope this makes sense

OP posts:
eandz · 29/11/2010 02:32

oh, also in case anyone is wondering- literally everything we go to is like a minute away so I don't really calculate travel time.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 29/11/2010 16:22

Eandz, going to shoot straight here with my pov (hope not too bluntly), but even for an American baby, that is too much in the way of organised activities for a 2 year old, and one who has just turned 2 at that, and especially one whose speech may be a bit delayed.

(I had all my DCs in the US and oldest went right through school there, is now in university. I know how it goes with the class for this and the class for that and the anxiety about your child falling behind. Plus the fact that going to different classes is just about the only way a sahm can actually meet up with others in the same boat. The climate where they were all babies meant you would be cooped up indoors for weeks at a stretch in the winter if you couldn't get out to something with the DCs, and the temptation to fill in those long blank days with activities, just to try and talk with another adult for a change, was very strong.)

There's yoga, football (soccer?), music, music and rhyme, as well as the flash cards -- does he really need all of this?

Do you yourself feel anxious and need a structured day, need to discuss the schedule with him? What is it about an unstructured day that would drive you loopy? I am intrigued that you have such a precise idea of when he finishes eating on Tuesdays and Thursdays (6:10). Do you check the clock or time him? (This reference comes on top of the reference in an earlier post about timing the playdoh experience, plus the comment about calculating travel time, so it caught my eye).

I am also intrigued by the idea that he gets a 'fun day' once a week (Wednesday).

I can see music, listening to tone and sounds, etc., and maybe the flash cards being useful for a speech delay, and it's nice to get together with the other children and their caregivers, plus they get the chance to speak to each other, play in a relaxed and 'flowing' way.

I don't see opportunities at home for getting his hands wet, muddy, covered in finger paint, playing at a water table or digging in a sandbox right there at home. Maybe he gets a chance to do this in the park? Just offering the playdoh at the time he seems to want to play with his poop, as an alternative right there on the spot, wasn't really the thrust of earlier suggestions imo -- I think the point was to relax the overall scheduling and managing of the day and be more spontaneous, less structured overall, with all activities being much more DS-directed and more time spent at home just poking around, following his fancy, and far less time at classes.

WRT the flashcards, are they the Makaton cards, and was this recommended by the speech therapist? I ask because the only children I know who have done this in a structured way have Down's Syndrome (nephew) and autism (neighbour) and needed an alternative to speech. I know a good few families who used signing as an aid for communication while their children were still non-verbal and it worked out very well as a way to deal with that time period where the DCs got frustrated by their inability to express their needs. Has the therapist recommended that the two of you sit down and read little board books together, with the DS able to turn pages back and forth, point at pictures, go at his own pace and according to his interest -- an interactive and maybe more self-directed activity in other words, instead of a teacher-student dynamic? Reading picture books together, especially if there's a text that rhymes or has a little rhythm, can help greatly with language learning and vocabulary development (not to mention the later acquisition of reading).

maryz · 29/11/2010 18:18

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