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Here we go again - defiant ds aged 5.5

26 replies

WinkyWinkola · 14/11/2010 11:59

I need to rant.

My ds is driving me nuts. I feel like his behaviour is ruining our family life. He's defiant to the extreme.

Every single thing I ask him to do is met with no and shouting and screaming.

He's been like this for years. There was a slight improvement when he started school but now his defiance is back in full effect. Of course, he's an angel at school. He's described as very bright and able.

Even the start of the day is awful. He wakes us up at 5.15 despite our having a gro clock and asking him to read (he's a great reader) and play in his room until the sun is up at 6.15am. He comes in and wakes us up, asking to play on our iPhones. If we tell him to go back to his room, he starts shouting and screaming, slamming doors. He just doesn't seem to care about the consequences. We are strict with him, putting him in his room when he misbehaves.

We go swimming lesson - he shouts and screams about it. Ask him to come and sit down for lunch - he shouts and screams. Ask him to get dressed, he kicks up a fuss, throwing toys, slamming doors. He's gone to school in his pyjamas twice now. He didn't like that but he still is very difficult when it comes to getting dressed. What else can I do? We take away his telly session, take away toys, favourite dvds, books, reward him with his favourite activities.

It's a nightmare. I can't describe how stressful it is particularly as the grown up, I simply can't seem to find a way around it. We've tried talking to him about why he's so good at school and rude at home. He doesn't know why.

I am crying as I write this because I hate life the way it is in our family at the moment. His behaviour spoils every weekend, every family thing we do. It's extreme and I don't know what to do about it. Nobody else believes us - but he's such a good boy, I can't believe it. He can't be worse than any other child is what I hear. I don't really talk about him to any friends or my mum anymore.

The thought of being just me, dh, dd and ds1 is such a relief - it's all so easy when he's on a play date for example. Everyone is relaxed, not walking on eggshells, waiting for the next rage over nothing.

Dh is now talking about boarding school for ds1 because of the negative impact his behaviour is having on all of us. It would mean going without lots of stuff but the intense level of conflict would be gone.

Right now, I just lie in bed every morning, listening to him scream his head off and wondering where we went wrong and really not having any desire to get out of bed to face the day. How have we f*cked up so very badly? How can a five and a half year old have such a massive impact on everyone in our house? Sorry to sound so self pitying.

OP posts:
edam · 14/11/2010 12:17

That does sound extreme and very difficult to cope with.

Have you asked for professional help? An educational psychologist, for instance? You can go private or via school or HV IIRC.

OhWhatNoooow · 14/11/2010 12:18

So sorry to hear you are going through such a hard time. One thing for sure is that you seem to be doing all the right things discipline-wise. Some children are just naturally more difficult and dont respond to the usual methods of parenting. Don't blame yourselves, he obviously feels secure with you, seeing as his behaviour is only at home. Thats a good thing. If he were like that at school then I would really worry.

I'm sure someone with some great advice will come along soon, sorry I couldn't help much, just wanted you to know I hear...

PolarEyes · 14/11/2010 12:25

Sorry things are so difficult atm. Though I am just a random person on the internet I do 100% believe you.

Have you ever considered asking the GP for a referral? To say a paediatrician, CAMHS? I am not suggesting your DS has a diagnosable difficulty, but when the more mainstream approaches don't work there may be other strategies out there that could. He could well be bottling up his school angst and saving it for you at home - particularly if the class is set up in a way where it is still relatively play-based and the child gets a fair amount of choice throughout the day.

edam · 14/11/2010 12:39

In the meantime, you could write to Saint Tanya Byron, one of the very few experts who talks sense and doesn't patronise parents. Think she has a column in The Times.

WinkyWinkola · 14/11/2010 12:46

A paediatrician has seen him. All normal physically but thought the behaviour extreme. Referred him to local CAMH who wrote to me saying they don't deal with kids under ten.

Waiting lists for therapists and psychiatrists are shockingly expensive. But we'll have to do it.

I just don't to do this anymore. All very poor me but I can't make it better. I'm just worn down I guess.

OP posts:
PolarEyes · 14/11/2010 12:57

How long ago did you see the paediatrician? Would try and write and say what happened with CAMH referral and how the behaviour is at home. There will be a dept somewhere that can help but it can be a mission in itself to find it. May be worth considering getting in touch with www.bibic.org.uk/bibicTherapyTeam - I believe there charge is relatively low. They don't dx but give strategies and advice. Worth a phonecall?

KickArseQueen · 14/11/2010 13:02

I just wanted to say I can completely empathise with the "walking on egg shells" part of your op. Our situation is different but we have had a very difficult 18 months with our ds1. At my lowest point I dreaded going to bed, because once I was asleep it would be morning and then it would all begin again.

I don't know what the answer is for you, but there will be one and it will get better. I recently did a parenting course that was being run at the local school. Several people told me not to bother because they felt it was aimed at people who were completely clueless and I have 4 dcs so it wouldn't be helpful to me, but they were wrong. I learnt a lot of things which I have been able to slot into everyday life, different ways of asking the same questions, how to react to different things. It was really helpful. It sort of gave me an opportunity to look at the situation from the outside. Somewhere I have a dvd from the course. I will see if I can dig it out. The child that was used as the example sounds a lot like your son. There was nothing wrong with him as such, he had basically learnt some really bad ways of getting attention. I'll be back later.

Hang in there.

edam · 14/11/2010 13:41

It isn't 'poor me' at all. You have tried to deal with this but it's too complicated and now you need help.

If dh is talking about boarding school, presumably you can get the money together for a private ed psych, even if it's a stretch? Think the money would be better invested in that.

WinkyWinkola · 14/11/2010 13:52

Too kind. Thank you for your advice all. I want to try psychiatrist before boarding school. I mean how's he going to feel being bundled off to school because he has parents who can't manage him?

Having said all that, I'm finding it really hard to be near him and engage with him at all because I'm so apprehensive about him kicking off. I don't want to touch him or anything.

I had one on one time with him this weekend and he was fine then. But went mental in the afternoon and all day so far.

OP posts:
WinkyWinkola · 14/11/2010 13:55

What does educational psych mean? I mean ds1 is fine educationally.

What could be the matter with a child so he behaves like that?

OP posts:
PolarEyes · 14/11/2010 14:54

If you're going private I think a clinical psychologist (specialising in paediatric/family) may be more appropriate regarding behavioural issues; an ed psych will typically carry out a cognitive assessment. Though they can give advice on behaviour/refer you elsewhere, probably more cost-effective for you to go the clinical psych path. Another option would be a development paediatrician rather than a general one.

edam · 14/11/2010 15:38

YY to Polar, clinical psych much better bet, or dev. paed.

Do you do your best (in v. trying circumstances) to create positive interactions with ds, as well as negative? Even if it's artificial/forced on your part, if you can find opportunities to spend time with him doing things he enjoys, it might well help. Giving him an opportunity to get attention for doing good things as well as bad.

Sounds as if either there's an underlying problem OR he's trapped in a pattern of behaviour he can't find his way out of.

MadameSin · 14/11/2010 15:52

Winky What does he's school say about his behaviour in their environment>

WinkyWinkola · 14/11/2010 16:21

The school say he's fine there. He's been 'star of the day' more so than any other child at the moment. I find this unbelievable but he's got the stickers to prove it. We've tried reward charts at home to no avail.

He occasionally gets into trouble at school like you'd expect with any kid. Last time was for drawing on the school shed with chalk. No major misdemeanour but obviously needs to be nipped in the bud.

I'd like to think we're very positive with ds1. We praise liberally when he's nice to his siblings. When he does well in reading etc. When he doesn't wet the bed. When he eats all his supper. When he does anything nice. In fact, I think we're ott with it because we're so bloody grateful when he does anything pleasant at home!

Right. So now I'm going to research clinical psychiatrists including the costs! I can't have another weekend like this one. We've just come back from the zoo and he raged for half of the journey home because the flask of hot choc was finished. Hmm. He raged most of the way there because we said he couldn't take his bike as it was raining and his bike couldn't go in the indoor bits of the zoo. Hmm again.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write advice. It's very appreciated. I feel so desperate and it's horrible to feel like you're just messing up your kid over and over. Thank you.

OP posts:
edam · 14/11/2010 16:38

Winky, I don't have the answers to everything, but I do know about wetting the bed. Please don't treat it as something he can control - it isn't. The NHS doesn't take referrals until a child is seven because before that age wetting the bed is within the normal range of development. IIRC night time control is to do with a hormone - if your body hasn't started making it, there's nothing you can do.

PolarEyes · 14/11/2010 17:15

Today's triggers sound like when his expectation isn't met......Does your DS show any signs of being preoccupied with being star of the day?

PolarEyes · 14/11/2010 17:36

also if you/your DH has any kind of private healthcare via work that includes children may be worth checking if covered under that for initial appt.

cilantro · 15/11/2010 15:45

One of my nephews was like this. A very difficult boy, challenging everything his parents did. But gradually he grew out of it and now is very normal and happy 10yr old.

I know this isn't much consolation at this moment, but it's the sort of thing I'm keeping in mind for my rowdy 4 yr old DD. It sounds like your boy is doing it for attention like my girl and hopefully that's something they grow out of around 8+ like my nephew.

If he's doing wonderful at school you're not doing too badly. And Ed Psych may not intervene unless he was?

CarGirl · 15/11/2010 15:52

You have my sympathies, it sounds horrendous.

I would be asking for someone to come and observe you at home to see if you are somehow inadvertandly fuellling his tantrums by the way you respond to him. That is not a criticism btw.

Is there anything he responds to positively - money/stickers/treats etc?

cilantro · 15/11/2010 16:48

Also have you thought about sports? Sometimes football, etc can calm boys down by giving them an outlet for aggression. And what about a DS for the morning (if you agree with them)? You probably already thought of those!

WinkyWinkola · 15/11/2010 19:36

Thank you for your sympathies. He does swimming (30 mins per week) and karate (one hour per week). And he's just started skiiing (one hour per week).

I think it's too much but he insists he wants to do all of these and actually, he's doesn't seem to struggle in terms of energy at all. And it gives me a bit of leverage as well in terms of getting him to do the small things I need him to do, like get dressed, not hit his sister etc.

Cilantro, I'm hoping for the happy, normal, well adjusted 10 year old scenario too! Then my other dcs will play merry hell because they'll feel neglected due to all the attention ds1 has been getting.

I've been researching clinical psychiatrists for Herts but not having much luck. Dh suggested psychologist would be better but ahem, I'm not terribly sure of the difference.

OP posts:
WinkyWinkola · 15/11/2010 19:47

PolarEyes, have contacted Bibic. Many thanks for that information.

OP posts:
PolarEyes · 15/11/2010 20:06

May be worth asking on the SN which would be more suitable..I am wanting to say clinical psychologist but can't quite articulate why! Is travelling to London an option? Bound to be more options there.

Hope Bibic can help - I';ve not personally used them but have only heard good things about them.

Limez · 15/11/2010 20:18

No real advice (other than yes, its clinical psychologist you need to be looking for), it sounds really tough for you all. Hope you get some good help.

earlyriser · 15/11/2010 20:37

Winky i really feel for you and can, to some extent, understand what you are going through. Do you think that maybe the time has come to accept that although you may not be able to change HIS behaviour, you can change how YOU react to it.

Recently i have started to completely ignore the whinging that almost constantly comes from my dd when she gets home from school. I don't ignore her but i don't acknowledge that she is whining. So instead of getting all het up and saying 'will you stop that whining' i just pretend she isn't. iyswim.

What i think i mean is just don't ever rise to the bait (easier said than done). I don't know if this will stop the behaviour but it may make you feel more in control. HTH