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Six year old excluded from school for the second time in five months.

40 replies

Flip · 15/09/2005 10:00

I need some help with a very unruly six year old. I was a regular on here a few years ago and I remember how helpful everyone is. I really need some advise.

I've cut out E numbers and he takes Omega Three. He has a phycologist who never sees him just me and occasionally his dad. We've tried alternate therapy which cost the earth. He was having cranial massarge twice a week and a child councellor coming in to talk to him. But with no change after two months, we couldn't justify the hundred pound a week it was costing.

So yesterday he had been in trouble at school from the very start of the day. School are really good with him and put up with a lot. There's no diagnosis and no statement, so no funding.

He'd been disrupting his class all day and done no work at all. So at the end of the day when I went to collect him one of the teachers said that he was just finishing his work and to go and have a sit down. It took him another half hour but I didn't mind wating. I want them to be more assertive with him. He does his sats this year. Eventually he'd finished his work and he was in a fowl mood because he'd been kept behind. The teacher explained to me about a few of the problems there had been that day. Then as we were getting ready to leave he shouted, "Oy Miss, wait there a minute." Then he ran up to her and punched her. The head master was just down the corridor talking with another teacher and he saw this. I was absolutley mortified. The head master read him the riot act and told me that he had no choice but to exclude him again and that his behaviour couldn't continue. So while I'm having a pow wow with all the teachers and the head master my little cherub is running between classrooms and knocking on the glass to get the head masters attention. Then he's waving at him and pulling faces. There is no a dam thing I can do. I can't smack him because that would infringe on his human rights. It's all wrong. What's he doing to my humam rights putting me through this torment?

My husbands away in another country for a week and I had no one to go to so I went to my mum. I made him sit on the stairs and not move for half an hour and then he had his tea, then went back to the stairs. But inbetween times I was trying to get hold of his dad and his phycologist. The phycologist is off sick and the consultant said that he still stands by his original diagnosis, NOTHING WRONG.

The last time he was excluded he kicked another child in the head and smashed his head against the wall giving him a concusion. Yesterday at school he hit another child over the head with a chair. Would you want a child like that in a class with your kids? I feel terrible because it's my child that's disrupting the lessons for everyone. I can't bare to take him out and put him in a special school, but I don't know what the alternative is. No one wants to help me and I've done plenty of jumping up and down and standing firm. But it get's me knowhere. Social services just gave me money to put him a kids club during the holidays, but no support.

He threatens to kill himself, wishes that I was dead or his dad. He tries to run infront of cars and says exactlty how he wants to kill himself. I'm totally lost and I'm not sure how much longer I can cope with him if at all. I've got a temp teacher for the next couple of days and it's costing £150 for eight hours schooling. But he'll get nothing out of it because he just won't listen. All I can do is send the message that, yeah you're out of school but you're not getting away with doing nothing.

I need some help and well if you've read this far you've done well. I wanted to quit a while back!

OP posts:
LadyTophamHatt · 15/09/2005 10:09

Hi, flip I do rememebr you from a while ago (I was emmatmg) so welcome back.

I wish i had some advice for you here, but I haven't but I just wanted to keep this one near the top for you.

Someone will have some wise words for you , I'm positive of that.

butty · 15/09/2005 10:11

Flip, i really do feel for you, i am going through total disruption with my 5 year old daughter who has suspected ADHD.
If i were you i would demand a second opinion from a pead.
Maybe get the school involved or talk to the school nurse, as ignoring his obvious problems now wont benefit him in the future.
Sneak a camcorder in your living area then send the evidence to the doc who says that there is nothing wrong!!!!
You dont have to accept ther diagnoses and you are not meant to deal with these situs on your own.
Hope things get better for you.
Butty.xx

expatinscotland · 15/09/2005 10:12

Has he tried a course of Ritalin? I know there's a lot of press about it's being abused, but it DOES have a genuine use.

NotQuiteCockney · 15/09/2005 10:12

I don't have any suggestions, but I do have sympathy, and some questions: What is he like at home? Is he violent with you and your husband? If so, under what circumstances? What is your relationship with him like, generally? Is it always troubled, or do you sometimes get along? How do you punish him at home?

Redtartanlass · 15/09/2005 10:13

Oh Flip ? I have no advice to give you at all, but I just want you to know I?m thinking of you and it sounds like you trying everything. I hope someone on mumsnet can offer you some decent advice. Keep strong flip.

Flip · 15/09/2005 10:19

Thanks everyone for posting back. At home he's much the same. His strength is far greater than mine but I have to try and pin him to stop him hurting himself. Punishment wise, what can I do? He doesn't care about anyone elses feelings. He doesn't accept fault for anything. It was my fault he was excluded from school yesterday because I was stupid enough to give birth to him. Those were his words. How can you reason with someone like that? He went to bed last night as soon as we got home and I stripped his room and threatened him not to leave his bedroom. WHich he did. But this morning it's back to normal. I've switched the TV off so many times and he's switched it back on and screamed abuse at me. I've put him in his room and locked the door and he's unlocked it and come out. His teacher arrives at one and god help her.

OP posts:
alhambra · 15/09/2005 10:25

Flip I am so sorry to hear this. I don't know the whole story from years back - ie has he always been like this, was there a moment where he changed from difficult to impossible, has he had lots of trauma,etc, but I would strongly suggest that a child who is only 6, who is distressed enough to talk about suicide, and who is so violent and out of control, should certainly get a diagnosis and you should get some support. If necessary, camp out in the consultant's waiting room until you get seen again, or harrass the secretary. Get a second opinion from a different doctor, call junior MIND, talk to your HV and ask for extreme parenting support. Also, make sure you are looking after yourself. You mention you and your partner are getting psychological help - how does that all fit in?

ScummyMummy · 15/09/2005 10:27

Oh no, flip. Sounds very hard. Has the psychologist been to observe him in school or offered his teachers any advice?

Do you watch Supernanny or Little Angels at all? Your son sounds a bit like the boys on Supernanny yesterday. They were very violent and destructive. With them the key was being really firm about discipline- they used timeout as an immediate consequence- and also playing with them and praising them a LOT more to increase parent-child trust and self-esteem. Maybe you could go on Supernanny?! They were looking for more participants recently I think.

NotQuiteCockney · 15/09/2005 10:28

I'd agree with alhambra. You need help, the sooner the better. Some sort of counselling for him, maybe?

Is there anything he values, that you can use as reward/punishment? I'd get a handyman in to sort things out so you can lock things, like the telly, in a way that he can't get to ... but I also think your son certainly sounds like he needs some counselling himself.

amynnixmum · 15/09/2005 10:36

Hi Flip,

What a horrible time for you. What kind of psychologist are they? Are they part of your community health team? I agree with Butty that you should get him seen by a paed. Its ridiculus to say nothing is wrong when he is having such severe problems at home and at school.

My GP referred my ds to the community paed when I approached him about ds behaviour. He doesn't have a diagnosis either but he has now got a statement as like your ds he was prone to aggressive outbursts in school and was excluded 3 times in 4 months at just 4 years old.

Flip · 15/09/2005 10:39

I took him to CAMHS (child adolesent mental health services) and said I wasn't leaving with him until he saw someone. That was one of those times he was trying to kill himself. I just sat down and let him run riot in the wating room shouting and swearing at everyone until finally they had to act. His phycologist saw him and took him in a quiet room alone. I could hear him screaming and throwing things and then he ran out. She had to send to security to bring him back because I wasn't going. I'd had enough. I was just a wreck, shaking and crying. My son didn't give a dam about what he was doing to me. Then the phycolgist tells me that she appreciates there's a problem and that he'd been violent with her and abusive and that she was afraid of him. Yeah, join the club! he's only been on your books for three years! That was the second time she had seen him in three years. She hasn't seen him since. All further appointments again have been with me or me and his dad. I'm going on a parent survival course but what I really want is the phycologist to spend some time with him and talk to him. He has opinions on everything and he's extremely clever. She could have a conversation with him as you would a teenager, but no, they don't work like that. It's just not good enough and now I'm angry again because I've wrote it down. I want to take him right now and just drop him on their door and drive off. I almost left him last night as his swimming lesson. He hates his lessons so I made him go and I was sat there in tears with all the other parents staring at me but I didn't care. I just wanted to walk out of there and never look back. I've been depressed before and that's what it's like but I've been off medication for four months and I'm not about to give in to it now. I want help for him now. Where do I go?

OP posts:
unicorn · 15/09/2005 10:40

Flip, you really must be going through it with him at the moment, I hope you can get some respite for yourself, as you will need to conserve your strength to deal with him.

I don't really know enough about it but as he been assessed for opposition defiance disorder?

The fact that he will sit on the stairs though (as you said he did for half an hour) perhaps negates that option.

I hope you can get some help for both him, and support for you, it is truly exhausting having a child with behavioural problems.

Flip · 15/09/2005 10:42

I had to keep putting him back on the stairs. He didn't stay there voluntarily.

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unicorn · 15/09/2005 10:44

Did you see the programme the other night anout the boy they call Chucky?

The thing that seemed to help in his case was the American Doctor who has written this book
explosive child

It may have some pointers?

amynnixmum · 15/09/2005 10:45

Is your GP supportive? If so go and see them and tell them how bad this is getting. Be really honest about how you are feeling. They should be able to help you with options. Or you could try ringing pupil and parent services and ask their advice on what to do next.

I am not surprised you are angry - I think it is appalling that you and your ds are not getting any support

alhambra · 15/09/2005 10:46

Flip I've just spoken to my sister who is a clin. psych and she was appalled by the behaviour of the cahms psych. But she also suggested that your son might have asperger's - I read her your post and she said it sounded like classic as to her - apparently it slips through the net quite a lot. she said go on the National Autistic Society website, get the helpline number and talk it through with someone. If as you say he is very clever and also lacks empathy it is possible he as AS. Does he have friends? When did he speak? What does he like doing? Good luck Flip hang in there.

butty · 15/09/2005 10:50

flip, go to social services and sit in their waiting room until you are seen as they can be of good help in these situations. At the moment i have homestart that come round twice a week to help with chloe.
She has started getting violent recently and it can be awful to see her like this.
The other week when we were shopping i had to put reighns on her as she runs away(she has always done this and is a major problem) She started screaming at the top of her voice "i will kill you mummy" and she then started hitting me.
I am used to it all now and keep having to push for help and DX.
School nurses can be really helpful if you have the time to push their arses into gear and they should refer your son to the school pead as they did with chloe.
She is now on a waiting list at the ADHD clinic and a second appointment with the school pead.
Get in their faces, be persistent, because unfortunately it appears to be the only thing that works.
It has worked with me although the waiting times for appointments are rediculous.
Good luck.
PS. i to am on medication and came off it, but after 3 months i am now on more and although its not the best solution, it does help.
You have to think about yourself, otherwise you will make your self ill and what good will that be.
I know, i've been there.
Butty.xx

ScummyMummy · 15/09/2005 10:50

Very surprised at the camhs team too. You sound at the end of your tether. Do you have a normal (non-camhs) social worker at all?

binkie · 15/09/2005 10:51

Flip, all my sympathies. You are having such a dreadful time, and inside himself your poor son must be having the most horrible time too.

I am astonished that no-one has seemed to suggest at least having a trial on medication - unless this is something you don't want? Like expatinscotland, I know it shouldn't be thought of lightly - but if your son might benefit?

mummyhill · 15/09/2005 11:08

I can't offer any advice hbut loads of sympathy and a hug. And will try to help by bumping this thread for you in the hope that someone who can help will read it.

Flip · 15/09/2005 11:41

I think I've finally lost it. I'm shaking that much because I just can't cope. I've even phoned the in-laws and asked for them to come down as soon as they can. The baby is just screaming at me because he wants his blanket and he's spilt milk all over it. No other blanket will do. So I've just strapped him in his car seat in the car and left him there to watch the rain and the trees and hope he calms down because if he doesn't I'm going to really just well I don't know.

I've phoned the hospital and put in an offical complaint about the way that CAMHS have handled my son which has made me even more upset. I have to go to school in two hours and face the head master where they'll tell me if he can go back or not. My house is a mess and the teacher is arriving in an hour and half. I'm losing it and that's dangerous with two small kids in the house and no husband to take over.

In-laws just phoned and there's twenty minutes away. I think my mums coming to because she phoned while babie was screaming and then just hung up. She's only five minutes away. So I'm going to go and sit in the garden away from them both until help arrives.

OP posts:
butty · 15/09/2005 11:44

try your best to keep it together, it sounds like you've had a lot to deal with over the past few years.
You've coped so far, just keep your chin up and smile(i know it ain't easy)
And good on you for putting in a complaint.

Need to chat, then cat me.
Butty.xx

Flip · 15/09/2005 11:59

My mum has arrived and so has the critism. Will have to go and then I'll post an update when I've seen the head master.

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unicorn · 15/09/2005 12:00

x good luck flip - be strong.

Jimjams · 15/09/2005 12:25

CAHMS are often completely incapable of spotting AS or ADHD.

I would perhaps have a look at BIBIC (google you'll find it easily). They specialise in childrenw ith behavioural difficulties, they provide grants etc if you can't afford the fees and they spoend 3 days with your child. They don't dx as such, but they do give the professionals in your area the push they often need.