How can I help my DD (nearly 10) become less literal?

[sandyballs]

Her peers seem to have grown out of this but she hasn't. Lots of examples but one just now, which has prompted this thread.

DD1, her sister(DD2) and a friend (all same age) are having dinner and I have just been serving it up and said "tell me when" and my DD2 and friend both said "when" and I stopped. DD1 then went into a long complicated explanation of why I didn't really want them to say "when", and how they should have said 'stop' or 'enough'. The other girls just looked at her in amazement, not so much her sister as she is obv used to it. They tried to explain that is was a joke but anything like that is lost on her.

It worries me that she is still so so literal, like a much younger child, when her peers have outgrown it.

That's prob a silly example, there are loads that I can't think of, she doesn't get any jokes really, just dissects them and wonders why they are supposed to be funny.

OMG!! Mumbar - you reminded me - DD will say "where are those people at the buss stop going?" "have those people been to the beach?"
Just out of kilter questions that I cannot possibly answer, and she thinks I will know the answers

My DSS1 was like the OP's DD at the same age. He took all the advertisements on TV at face value, couldn't understand any of the jokes DP and I shared, got upset (to the point of crying) when we gently teased one another (not even him) and thought all doctors always knew best. You get the gist .

He is now 15 and has a much, much better grasp of nuance! Not quite as brilliantly as his younger brother, but fine, really fine.

Yes DS does that too [hgrin]

School have said he has poor social communication skills and he very much a talk to you not with you type [hgrin] He does not get playground politics and will often just chose to play alone. [hsad] Not that he cares [hgrin]

I have to confess at times I switch off and he doesn't even seem to notice [hblush]

I guess with everything it takes all sorts to make the world go round - I get quite annoyed with him at times but have to have a good chat with myself that he just can't help it - it's the way he is and as I love him despite this I have to stop getting cross with him.

I agree with pp who said your DD will get her own set of friends and be happy and they'll accept her for who is is and what she says/does. Must be hard tho having a twin as I'm noticing more now (ds is 6) just how different he is from his peers - great with adults tho.

OP
Wrt to literalism we used extreme phrases like "to eat a cow" ds was so literal he literally believed that if he was hungry he had to eat a cow I had to explain and logicalise everything. He loves words and language so once it was described and explained to him in ways that he could rationalise he gets expressions and jokes so much better. He still has literalism problems it drives me mad, but if you explain (actually this is an expression/joke etc) he can then grasp it.

The other side to literalism is the strict adherance to rules and the non acceptance of different rules for different people/situations. He still really struggles with this. This is much trickier but it is a case of breaking it down and exagerated/repeated explaination so that it is in terms that he can logicalise.

eg. what is the odd one out;
butterfly, bird, bee, snail.

most KS1 children would pick snail as the rest fly.
ds picked bird because of its classification: its not an insect mummy.

I find a lot of poetry work which uses descriptions which arent how you would literally describe something are really good talking points to discuss the use of language for descriptive purposes (essentially what expressions are)

What worked for us with this exact problem was this explaination:

say when is short for you need to say when you have enough. effectively when to stop. stop can be harsh as it is a harsh sounding word. More often applied to an action that is wrong. Thus when is a softer word that can be used to convey an appreciation of the food provided, ie less negative connections to the word.

Good luck, it is possible to reduce literalism but it takes putting it into terms and logic that can be grasped by a literist.

I really like the poetry idea. We discuss philosphy problems to help with the thinking outside the box. We have the Philosophy Files book and talk about the problems from time to time.

Agree with the suggestions of ASD. My DS was/is the same, and wasn't diagnosed until he started secondary.

Slapstick humour tends to make more sense although certain wordplays he finds hysterical. He finds it hard to gauge a person's mood by their tone/body language.
Struggles with friendships, great at maths...

When they are younger, they are often just seen as quirky and it's when that continues that it flags up other possibilities IME.

So in all seriousness should I be 'worried' that my DS shows these quirks and loves Mr Bean [hsmile].

The last 2 years at school he has been 'sad sided' for these traits and this years teacher seems to like his quirks but did say to me - 'you seem very aware of what he's like'

My mum hints at epilepsy absences with my DS (altho I do not believe they are) as he can be talking on the phone and just kinda forget he's doing it when something distracts him - he'll actually sit holding the phone in his hand and be unaware of it - and when its pointed out just say 'oh bye' in the phone and hang up. [hshock]

He is only just 6 mind so could just be 'quirky'.

In this house that is normal 6 yo ds' something far more interesting has caught my attention behaviour. attention span of 6yo boys is not known to be that long.

His teacher isn't too worried about it so I have relaxed about it. I'm just trying (unsucessfully) to teach him the skills such as allowing people to make their own decisions, and doing the job asked when asked and finishing it before doing something else.

if you manage that please you you share how. In this house there are 1001 half started jobs. Bribery is the only way i have managed with ds. but even then there is only a small chance of the job getting done.

Can anyone advise on where to start on getting an assessment/diagnosis and is it worth it. What i mean is there any help for this or would it just be a hindering label - as socially my DS needs no more hinderance

I went for a dx and a label when the fact my son has Asperger's began to impact negatively on his schooling, social interactions and learning in general.
I had the knowledge and skills to facilitate and make reasonable accommodations at home, but without it he would have been put into the disruptive, aggressive EBD category by school.
Exclusion, expelled, PRU whatever.
DD has many traits, as does OH but they haven't got in the way of them living their lives on their own terms so to speak.
I went through the GP, CAMHS and health, backed by the school.

you can go to the GP atah. How old is your son?

I think schools are much slower to dx milder Aspergers in girls because it sometimes displays differently and everyone always thinks of it as a male thing.

But in very mild cases it's completely liveable with, especially nowadays when there's so many careers suited to people with these traits.

DS (with two geeky parents) is currently on the waiting list for ASD assessment, not sure what they'll say, because he has a unique personality, and certainly doesn't tick all the boxes for any particular dx.

Sorry, haven't read all the answers, but my family used to call me Domestos when I was about that age, as I apparently "killed all known jokes dead"!

I grew out of it, I think.

Oh no, another classic from DS at dinnertime.
Talking to DD (age 5) about how everyone is different and it doesn't matter cos you can be friends with lots of different people so she says 'Yes, because different people make the world go round'
DS piped up 'No, they don't, do they Mum, it's not really that that makes the world go round is?'
Aagh, and he will not let up. Starts going on about physics and stuff, and DD and I just look at him like this
Bless his little cotton socks (tho actually they are prob 95% cotton, 5% lycra, or so he would remind me!)

My son is doing GCSE English, but it took him years to understand metaphorical language, idioms, irony and sarcasm.
He still has his moments of confusion and checking with me what's going on.

I suggest OP keeps a diary of these examples and incidents. Also read up on Aspergers.

I did this for DD1, now aged 11. When I went to the school nurse (didn't want to "waste my GPs time" ) I had lots of examples of what I was trying to explain.

DD1 was diagnosed with AS in the summer. Her primary school teachers never recognised any behaviours that they thought needed addressing.

To this day I have not met any primary or secondary school teachers who have any idea about AS. The school SENCO at primary also had no idea about AS in girls.

The help we are getting at secondary school is due to a very helpful psychologist who has taught me to be a bit pushy to get DD1's needs addressed.

Interestingly, this evening we were talking to DD2, aged 7. Talking about something her teacher had instructed her to do for homework. "Did your teacher tell you to do that?" I enquired. "No, no" replies DD2. Short pause. "She told everyone in the class to do it"

My DS doesn't quite get it either !! Playing eye spy earlier he said 'red' as there was runway and began explaining the answer and what they are for - everyone else just wanted to play the game .

Its hard to explain unless people understand - altho DS is only just 6 - but his lack of empathy is my main concern. He's lovely boy with a sweet peronality but just doesn't understand others upset.

Blamethe parents when DS was 5 he wanted to know why people believe the science of creation when everyone knows it was god that created the world [hgrin]

I'm very much the same, and hate large social events. I often wish I could understand what people are thinking - altho I've kinda taught myself to. Mum says I was just like DS is when I was young and also very literal.

As I said DS is only 6 so could be a developmental thing but one of my brothers best mates has aspergers so I am fully aware that you can get along in society with your 'quirks'.

Goblinchild sounds like your DS is doing brilliantly - good on him.

;To this day I have not met any primary or secondary school teachers who have any idea about AS'

Oh, there are quite a few of us around.
But the best way to get a school switched on and focused is to be a proactive and high profile advocate for your child.

MumBartheDoor
How funny!
DS wants to be an astro-physicist when he grows up (As an aside it will prob suit him as he can deal entirely with facts and equations!) and he holds no truck with all this God and creationism thing!
He is into the 'big bang' theory at the moment!

I spoke to DS teacher at parents evening about his social development and she said he has loads of friends but agreed he 'doesn't get' the social politics of the playground and he isn't as articulate as some most of his peers. And DS often tells me he's played alone in the playground

You may also remember the thread about parents evening thanking you GC amongst others for your support over the past 2 years since DS started school. (primary ed - thankyou x3). I've updated a post re his whiteboard/ computer experiences which explains what I mean.

As I said at the moment I'm just watching and trying to teach him these skills but as he exhibits all most of the traits of AS I'm just seeing if its a developmental social communication delay (school have said this). Guess if the gap widens between him and his peers I'll have the answer!! Altho school didn't feel he needed any IEP/SENCO involvement for this delay just to punish him for it when he got things wring.

Thank you for the advice Goblinchild .

I just wish a bit of training was available to people like yourself who are on the front line with SEN.

It seems very unfair to me that teachers have to deal with this without a basic understanding of what is going on. At best there is confusion. At worst the teachers feel I am making a fuss and being precious.

I don't expect a red carpet to be laid out for DD1. But it would be nice if teachers knew her lack of eye contact was not due to her being "rude". (DD1 has absolutely no speech or language problems).

That's a direct quote by the way! At primary I was told by the SENCO "she is autistic in the way that all men are autistic" and that she was "rude".

Just tell the school DD won't give eye contact as she feels uncomfortable, I did with DS and they know that he may be looking elsewhere but is absorbing everything like a sponge