I loathe my 7 Year old DD, I need some help please.........

[caughtinafog]

she's just horrible...every morning she literally growls at me, snarls, is rude to her sister, moans about her breakfast.

Every day I collect from school & she growls at me, barks, what have you got me to eat. She barely speaks to me. WHen I pick up DD2 from nursery she is all smiles, kisses & cuddles.

At the weekend she is bossy, is rude to me (in particular - DH tends to let it go), stroppy, one of her favorite sports is antagonising her sister (age 4).

We went out yesterday, yes a boring shopping trip. It would have been much quicker if DD was able to wait patiently whilst we looked at stuff. But no, she had to fuss, disappear, touch stuff.
We had her parents evening the other day, apparently she is a lovely girl. Which she can be, but her & I are just at loggerheads

The thing that gets me, is she is so angry. But I can't see what there is...other than she seems intensly jealous of her sister (small, cute, happy, east going. I've asked her about this & she says she wants to be small & cute. Yet all DD2's little friends adore DD1.

I feel like there is some connection going wrong in her brain..the trouble is, she is ruining home life. she has always been like it, she came out of me angry - little red angry face with fists. (DD2 barely opened her eyes when she was born), I am wondering if that is something to do with it. She doesn't walk, she bounces & skips..so much energy (she does several physical activities after school)

Anyway, she has been warned & warned over her behaviour this morning. DH was taking them to the park, but she was moaning about coat/jumper, telling DD2 she was ugly, making her cry, all whilst checking her hair is ok. She had a warning, they go outside then next thing DH has plonked her back in the house & is tkaing DD2 out for a bike ride. I'm in the lounge ironing & see water being poured out off the window. I've then gone up there, been very angry, screaming & shouting at her (completely the wrong thing to do).

I feel like i don't want her anymore (which is terrible & I'm not going to harm her) but I'm just telling this because i really am at my wits end. I feel at the point of either she goes or I do. This has been going on for a few week. I understand there is talk of tiredness etc (she's yr3) BUT it's not accpetable. She took something from the inlaws last week & lied about it. I asked DH to find out what was going on, but she said no, but then (when I insisted he push on hte q's) she said she had. She took it because she wanted it.

I'm worried- I'm worried that I can't control her or get through to her (make a connection etc) at this age, with myself shouting & being angry & what on earth is going to be doing in a few years time ? And she's destroying our family. She is so demanding - is she ill ? how can this be normal ?

Please help...
(nb regular poster, name changed)

Can't address the whole issue but how your DD1 is towards you is in response to how you are with her and your DD2. They respond to how you treat her. She's trying to get your attention. She wants you to love her as much as you do your DD2. What do you like about her? What can you build on to rebuild the relationship? Sometimes just "acting like" you love her and can't get enough of her time would be enough to reset the relationship so you do genuinely like her, once she feels liked. How do your DH and DD1 get on?

I don't really know what to say, but don't want to say nothing

Firstly you sound really, really anxious and overstressed - the pressure on you from feeling this way, coping with her behaviour and presumably feeling guilty is immense and comes through very clearly

do you get proper breaks, from both girls? You really need them.

Also please don't take this the wrong way but I think there is an element of self-fulfilling prophesy about this - your dd2 is little, cute and easy, your 7yo is the difficult one. Particularly the bit about her having been born angry - lots of babies are born screaming and with fists, it's NOT an indicator of later personality! I don't for a minute suggest that you are deliberately pigeon-holing them, but it happens very easily in a family and can leave the "difficult" child with no way of breaking the mold - she's 7, she doesn't have the skills of understanding to rise above her current identity, and to a degree she will carry on doing what is expected of her

I am sure people who have better advice will be along soon (in fact they have probably posted while I was rambling)

How much quality time do you spend with her? Just her? Could you and her do something nice, while DH looks after the 4yo?

Firstly I know how you are feeling, my 2 dd's are about the same sort of age and have a very turbulant relationship.

DD1 loves geting the younger one into trouble and uses it to try and make herself feel and look better.

I think she is missing you...how much time do you have with your dd1 on her own? Try and spend some girly time together while your dh spends time with the younger one. When shes been used to having all your attention, she may just be jealous of the attention her sister gets and is lashing out.

It probably isn't a complete answer but its worth a try

.

bumping again for OP

Agree with first post...your DD is 7 nd not able to indicate her feelings well...but from all you say it seems your DD has noticed that the smaller one seems to please you so much more...it is like a visious cycle. The more mean DD is the more angry and bitter you get towards her...and the more mean she is in response. She wants to be small and cute...well she IS...she is only 7....yes she is bigger than the little one but in relation to a real "big kid" your 7 year old is still a tiny person....who needs to feel cherished

I thiink you need to begin spending time alone with DD every day and really showing her some affection...loving words and actions all day long...

My eldest DS is 7 and he can be vile. He is often very angry and grumpy and will happily tell me he hates me. He can be really nasty to his siblings and about his friends. It is a phase (I hope). He was a lovely calm baby and toddler. You are not saying your DD1 has always been like this are you?

It can be a strain and bloody hard at weekends but we are getting through it by setting really firm boundaries...he gets 1 day banned from his DS/Wii for every particularly nasty outburst. What I don't do it compare him to his siblings as they might well be equally as vile when they get to his age. I think you have to combat the anger with love so when he tells me he hates me I tell him I love him. When he calms down he sidles up to me to chat and sometimes even says he loves me. We also try to give him one to one time as much as possible (hard with 3 kids).

I just wanted you to know you are not alone in coping with this angry, irrational behaviour.

Have you read Sibling Rivalry? I think it could be useful.

IIRC there is a situation just like this described in there.

Woah!! Step outside of yourself and look at yourself..really look at yourself.

You have labelled DD1 as trouble from the moment she was born and she knows it

You two need to spend some quality time without DD2 every now and again. Maybe one day a week, just take DD1 out somewhere special, just the two of you.

You may find that she is a worried little girl that just wants to know that she is loved just as much as DD2.

Try it, you may be surprised.

I agree with ripeberry - there is a chapter in How to Talk about labelling children. I did it with my DD when she was small, I labelled her as shy and anxious. It was like a lightbulb moment when I read How to talk. She is now confident and outgoing but I will always regret treating her like a little timid mouse for the first few years of her life.

I'm sorry you're feeling so stressed - others are right - there's nothing like some regular one to one time to restore a relationship and I think DDs especially crave time with their mother.

Little girls can be great allies when they start getting older.

Dd1 and I often have 'girlie' nights where we do each others hair/watch a film/window shop etc.

Do you do anything like that with her?

pottery painting on a girly afternoon always goes down well with a 7yr old dd, throw in a sit down inn a cafe with a big yummy slice of cake finished off with lots of hugs.

Sounds a bit cliche' I know but little girls always like to be made to feel special, so do us big girls come to that!

thanks ladies for your help, there are great ideas in there.

I just want to clarify that i haven't labeled her as angry from birth, it's just when I trace bakc the pattern, it's been there since there.

DD1 had a sleep in her bedroom, had a late lunch & now we are both ok (on the outside).

DD2 is upstairs with DH playing & DD1 & I are about to make some cakes together.

I don't ever make verbal comparisons with her & DD2, I suppose I don't need to because she can see herself DD2 gets an easier ride (but then is very easy going) We are in a vicious circle.

DD1 has a very good relationship with DH. They do something together on a saturday morning, but this weekend it's off, so I will take her into town/look at toys/cup of hot choc & cake. I wll also try the ceramic painting the following afternoon, because she loves arty stuff.

If there are any over things you can recommend, that would be fantastic.

Today's crisis has (hopefully) passed & will try desperately hard to avoid another one..

I took my 4 year old DD for cranial osteotherapy when she was a mild version of what you describe. My DD had a very fast birth, that hurt her neck and the kid had been in constant pain for 4 years.
www.cranial.org.uk/page3.html
She is happier now and i haven't changed anything at all.

My 7yo girl loves reading to me. We always try to find a quiet time to do half an hour reading without dd2.

She also likes walking our dogs with me and helping with things dd2 is 'too little' for i.e. cooking. Cinema trips and ice skating are a big hit too.

It can be easy to feel that the younger one is easier, their personality hasn't fully developed yet so they are much easier to deal with (mostly) and are cuter, so even when they are naughty you can cope with it because 'they don't know any better'.

Spending time alone with older one is essential imo.

I'm not sure about the self fulfilling prophesy thing.

Ds1 is much more endearing than ds2 a lot of the time. It was NOT the way I expected them to be, in fact they even LOOk like horrid henry and perfect peter. But my little 4 year old 'perfect peter's favourite phrase is "NO! I don't WANT to. I HATE you and I only like DAD!" Whereas ds1, who is 7, tends to say "Yes mummy" an awful lot more than his peers, despite having some behavioral problems.

I think I'm a lot quicker to 'pounce' on Ds1 because I'm watching him anyway, and he doesn't step far out of line. Ds2 has grown up with only 30% of my attention, which is very unusual for a second child who would normally get about 70% IMHO!

I am so sorry you are feeling like this. I have been there and know what it is like to have this breakdown in a relationship. All the time you tell yourself that they are the child and you are the adult - it doesn't work you just seem to keep going around in this circle.

All I can do is perhaps let you into know what I did. I sat my DS down and said to him 'well it isn't working for me, how is it working for you?' This stopped him in his tracks - at last someone was listening to him.

He felt he wasn't getting any 121 time. That he wasn't being allowed to make decisions for himself - as to what to wear, what to do after school - clubs etc, wasn't seeing enough of his dad - who worked long hours, every weekend spent shopping.

I said I was feeling that I wasn't being appreciated - that the way he spoke to me wasn't nice, and we role played as bit - how he spoke to his friends and how he spoke to me.

I also made a decision to only concentrate on the positives - thanks for putting your shoes away, you really made your bed well today, thank. Thank you for asking for sharing your toys. Plus, I modelled this behaviour with his dad.

You will get sibling rivalry and as one child behavrioulist said to me 'it is healthy when they are young - those that never had this can have real problems as adults'.

It isn't a quick fix but it gradually got better. Good luck. Apolgies for the really bad spelling.

On a rare day without her 2 brothers,dd(6) and I go on a bike ride together or on a really special day we've been to the childrens farm together and she's cuddled kittens all day-she is animal mad.
When the boys do football we've been to pottery painting too. We bake or just do the family meal together. Swimming feels special when it's just the 2 of us.
I save up craft kits for this kind of 1 on 1 time-making fingerpuppets or something with glitter-she loves it if I do one too.

My dd is a grumpy, moaning,hard to get out of bed, brother baiting madam who drives me up the wall, but she's also the kind of girl who befriends every lost sheep at school and will dance with me to any kind of music at any given time-focus on the positive.

Sometimes when they are behaving really badly the thing to do is make some time.

When my dd was awful I swopped our bedtime routines around and now I read to her every night, just us. She was getting very little attention other than put your shoes on! what are you doing! Where is your coat! And so on.

Please do try to watch out for the - she's always been angry stuff, you'll look for things to confirm behaviour and see what you need to add proof of your diagnosis - it means you can't effect change or affect her with your behaviour, if that's just who she is.

You need to find one moment of good behvaiour and her huge cuddles make her feel loved. (fake it if you need to!)
It could be that she is being very difficult because she feels this is the only way of getting attention.
She will never be like your DD2, she is her own self with her own personality

caughtinafog, this all sounds very much like where we were a few years ago with DS1.

What worked for us was;

Cranial Osteopath

Telling DS we loved him more than his siblings (obviously out of ear shot of siblings). I know a lot of people will say this is wrong, but we were desperate.

Lots of praise. Lots, and lots of praise.

My DD is 6 and our museum offers regular arty crafty workshos...things like soap making and Victorian childrens cut outs....shee loves these and we often go...you could check if your Museum offers similar?

LynetteScavo I kind of do that too. In 1-1 time, firmly out of earshot of others, I will tell ds2 that his kisses are extra special and cheer me up the best or I'll tell dd that she has special 'make mum laugh' super powers because she has me in stitches!

We did an exercise in self esteem with ds1 because he gets upset about having aspergers syndrome. You draw a big circle on an a3 piece of paper and then divide it into lots of segments. The point was to show ds1 that his as is only 1 part of him. So ds1 had good at swimming, hates green veg, good at remembering birthdays and so on. Ds2 and dd liked this too. You can show a balance of stuff-dd is grumpy in the morning, but excellent at clearing the table and climbing.It helps them see that any one thing does not define them and there are lots of good things about them.

...thanks will look out for museum offers.

DD1 has ALWAYS been like this, not just since having DD2. And I've always struggled with her.

In fact it wasn't until DD2 was born & loved me, that I realised how little DD1 was loving to me. Obviously it works both ways, but what I am trying to say is that she has always been difficult. The thing that gets me, is the anger, so rather than be upset about something, she is angry.

I'm fiddling around in the kitchen, reflecting on things, behaviours, attitudes.

Also have tried the cranial work, but not until she was 2. She had about 6 sessions, didn't make any differnce...