DS 6yr old - defiant & doesn't care!

[wellsie]

I am so concerned & unhappy.
DS is 6 & his behaviour is becoming increasingly bad to the point where the grandparents are commenting on how defiant he is
We've had a number of days out this summer hols & it has been hard work from the minute he wakes up. Asking him to get dressed or put his shoes on ends in him losing his rag. I ask him nicely, I then tell him we need to hurry because we have to go, meanwhile he is telling me I should do it for him! I then give him to the count of 3 or he will be on the step for 5mins. I get to 3 tell him to go on the step & then he's begging & pleading for forgiveness. When I say no, I've given plenty of warnings he then becomes aggressive & quite honestly nasty I end up manhandling him to the step & closing the lounge door, he will then start throwing shoes at the door!!
Eventually he calms down & I talk to him about how none of that needed to happen & I say lets forget about it & have a nice day. But by the time we've arrived at our destination he's already managed to upset his younger brother (age 4) on the journey & I'm filled with dread.
The day then seems to be dictated by his behaviour with regular tantrums & aggressive behaviour, he will storm off if we say 'no' to anything, got himself lost once by doing this but when we found him he wasn't upset just embarassed & cross.
When we get home & its bath, stories & bed he will then refuse to stay in his room, I say 'get into bed please' & its a smirk & a 'no' from him, this goes on until I threaten him with losing his stories for the next night, again he'll push this until he loses them & then we repeat the begging for forgiveness & then the aggression again - It is draining & hardwork .
He has no fear, doesn't care if he causes a scene (yes, I do) & doesn't seem to care about anyone else.

One-to-one he is a different little boy, caring, considerate, helpful & it breaks my heart that no one else sees this. He is a clever boy, in the top sets in his class although he has struggled with friendships at school & is unbelievably competitive, tried to explain to him that there is no I in Team
I would love to know that we're not the only ones going through this or if someone has any advice on how to manage his behaviour we would be so grateful.
Thanks in advance.

no advice, but my 6 year old is going through a similar stage - she's a girl...

Thank you Tootiredforgodtyping

No advice either but sympathy as my DD1 is a 6 year old little shit TBH.

I also have another DD who's 4, like yours Wellsie, and she is much better but the pair of them are exhausting and are really getting me down.

I hate the fact that I turn into a screaming fishwife 20 times a day and I resort to the manhandling too as I get so frustrated. Honestly they fight over EVERYTHING!

DD1 is a dream in school - her teacher last year couldn't believe she had tantrums at home.

At bath time tonight I said no TV in the morning (a weekend and holiday treat) as the pair of them had not helped DP tidy all their craft mess up...she said I was fat and ugly and she hated me .

Sorry for rant.....roll on Thurs when school starts back!!!

Hope some rather more sorted parents come along soon and tell us the magic formula for peace

thanks laundrylover.
Unfortunately at school his teacher (new out of training I might add) said he didn't have a breaking point which seemed a bit harsh to me but actually I now know what she means. No threat upsets him until its definitely going to happen. He will push to the limits. This morning I was in floods of tears at my parents house because he continued to tease his brother in the garden even though we were all watching & telling his to stop, only when I ordered him in the house & told him we were going home did he stop, in the meantime my Dad is muttering 'give me a week with him I'd soon knock that attitude out of him'
None of this is helped by the fact that DS2 is a dream, a little old man who you can't help but love whereas I'm sure everyone finds DS1 a bit more of a challenge.
I feel so sad about it all Where have I gone wrong?

Well TBH I don't think we have gone wrong and I know, deep down, that this is just a phase.

In your shoes I would meet with his new teacher as soon as school starts and work out a reward method that you can both stick to. This way he gets consistent discipline at home and school.

I have realised that what DD1 really likes is the TV so I am now going to really use this as a reward and will stick to my guns when it's taken away. This may work as DD2 is not that into the TV.

Remember it's also the end of the summer holidays and many of us are a bit tired and fraught. We sometimes forget how much kids depend on a routine.

Like you my second child is lots more lovable in many ways but remember that fighters go far in life! I was terrible as a kid and fought tooth and nail with my younger sister. I don't know how my mum coped with 4 of us but then she lived next door to my auntie who had 8 - in quick succession.

Let's keep this thread going over the next few days and see if we can improve things eh? I'm on MN most evenings at the mo...

I find my two (nearly 7 and 4) will happily be opposite to each other, so the worse behaviour exhibited by one, the other acts more angelic 'mummy, why is dd1 doing THAT' says the perfect 4 year old......or on the other hand I also get - dd2 'wails' dd1, 'what? I didn't DO ANYTHING' 'dd2 she hit me' dd1 only accidently....

I try to not sound like a 'fishwife' for most of the time (yeah right), and when I do, I say things like, look you're making mummy yell (i.e. I try to spot when I'm getting irrational too and humourise my behaviour and not stoop to their level) I also try to offer carrot and not stick, not big rewards, just small things (ie dd1 is going through a big art phase, so I'll offer some new crafting materials for good behavioiur at the end of the week, provided behaviour stays good, if it doesn't I do stick to my guns).

As LL says, it is only a phase, but it's a very trying one at times...when it gets bad now, just think to yourselves, well at least they're not 13+ and threatening to leave (oh yes we have all that to come )

For what it's worth a friend of mine found the carrot method didn't work, but the stick method does a treat and she's cleared through no end of 'tat' in her childs room by saying do this or you loose a toy, child doesn't, tat toy goes in the bin, child rapidly does as told! Good luck finding which one works for you.

Thanks Friz I like the 'you're making me yell'....will try that.

at the stick method though - giving anything away in this house is a struggle!! Last night I sorted out a bag of kids undies for the rag recycling and that was tough enough. Hoarders all. It would work I think but not sure I'm tough enough to do it IYSWIM.

How did today go wellsie - any better?

Ours was OK this morning and deteriorated later but I did go and lie in bed with DD1 and we had a lovely chat.

She told me that she keeps thinking about one time she had to go in 'time out'...at preschool. We'll have to work on that one.

She also said she wants some time just with me and not DD2 which is fair enough and something we don't do enough of. Planning some us time this week....

wellsie - do you get any time alone with DS1? She said DD2 annoys her sometimes and I bet your son feels the same. Can you do a trip to the park with just the older one?

It has sooo cheered me up reading this thread . Honestly, wellsie, there was so much of your OP I could have written.

DD1 is 6 (almost 7) and being a right little madam at the mo. As the OP says, one to one, she is delightful but at the mo, she is just showing off in front of her friends so much that it is embarrassing, and she is so competitive and really quite gobby really. Only today, she totally played up and embarrassed me at a birthday party.

It is so nice to hear that I'm not the only one going through it.

oh yes, I agree we have to ride out the phase :(

I think setting them up for situations where they will be happier and behave well as often as you can (eg, spending an hour one on one with them) is a good thing, because it reminds them and you that they do know how to be pleasant.

My DD1 seems to respond well to focussed eye contact and questions eg "are you going to kick and scream now, and make the day unhappy for everyone?" Of course, it doesn't always stop her, but it sometimes does, and at the very least I think it must be helping her to think about her own behaviour.

OP - If you're quite sure your Dad doesn't really mean it literally about knocking the attitude off him (I'm assuming he's just using the turn of phrase?), then maybe do leave him with his grandparents for a few days? I know my Dad doesn't take any nonsense from my kids (not that he ever hits them!!!), and I think it's good for them.

Another thing that helps a bit for us is that DH and I try to always step in on behalf of the other if we see her giving cheek - so if she is cheeky to me and DSH sees, he will take her aside and have a stern word about being kind to Mummy, and make her apologise. I don't know how much difference this makes to DD, but it gives me a littl break from dealing with her anyway.

OMG thank goodness I have found this thread. You have just described my 5 and a half year old ds. The holidays have been incredibly hard work. He is also EXTREMELY competitive and it gets embarrassing with his friends, he is quite a mature 5 year old compared to his friends, knows all the rules to football (which they don't) and can be bossy and needs his own way with them. It makes me cringe to watch him.k. He strops, manhandles his sister (which infuriates me) and is just generally horrid when he cant get his own way. Also totally the same with getting ready and says, I'm playing my ds, not now!!!!! So cheeky! One on one he is an ANGEL. I don;t know the answers but we have started getting tougher on him and taking things away, as suddenly time out is not working. He wants to be the boss, that is the bottom line. Its hard at the moment, Im hoping when he goes back to school he will settle down.

I was watching this thread carefully because I was getting to the end of my tether last week and I was seriously thinking of sending my 6 yo DS back. However, he has miraculously turned a corner and is now back to the great, cooperative and appreciative boy I know he can be!

I started to get consistent with applying rules having been a little lax during the holidays. I definitely had to weather some storms while we recalibrated, but it has really made a difference. We also had a massive lego building session with lots of one-on-one time that helped to diffuse tension between us.

I just wanted to chime in to say that the phases do end, it's just that when you're in the middle of one it feels like they have changed permanently.

You have my utmost sympathies, i have just started a thread for the very same reason about my devil daughter. She is horrid at times and then is sorry, then she will be awful again and is unconcerned about the consequences. She does not seem to understand the concept of NO even with a valid reason. Sometimes she gets in a pre-emptive strike and kicks off just as i say " yes course you can" just in case i say NO. Who said being a mum was all sunshine and rainbows, really try your patience dont they.

Evening all!

I don't know where wellsie has gone but good to know there are a few of us in the same boat. Come back OP!

Anyway I wanted to post to say that DD1 has been absolutely fab today! Went to friend's and she played really well and then did a 2.5 mile walk up a midge infested hill and ENJOYED it. It was so nice to have a day with the old DD.

Our friend's 12 year old daughter had 3 friends over and even though they were lovely I had a terrible vision of the future with my 2 girls!!

Wellsie ... take your dad up on his offer. Leave him there for a week and see how he copes ... he'll soon change his mind and appreciate how hard it can be to reason, negotiate, discipline and spend 24/7 with these little loves. I have 2 sons and my eldest became a nightmare aged around 6/7 ... only emerging from the horror at around 10 years old. Sorry, but it really did last that long Their behaviour can totally set the mood for the whole day. Outings were such an effort, I used to prefer staying home so I didn't get stressed or embarrassed. On the up side, I now have a gorgeous, polite, well behaved 14 year old. On the down side, I have another son who's just hit 7 .... here we go again!

My only DS 5yrs is going thro' exactly the same! Everyday is generally pretty horrible, him saying no to everything, me shouting, nothing changing. He gets loads of 1-2-1 being an only, and still things are dire.
Bought "Divas & Dictators" last wk, and did have 1 day when things were much better, since then, its all gone pear shaped again, but am not going to give up

DS(5.5) is being just like... pretty much everyone else's on this thread. Flips between being angelic and an evil minded little sod at the drop of a hat. Also suddenly developed longer and surprisingly hairy legs, so I presume testosterone is involved somewhere.

I try and think of him having child PMT or something to make my patience stretch further but getting seriously fecked off with the rudeness, the defiance, the whinging, the strops, ignoring me...

same. dream at school. they were shocked when i told them what he was like. going to see child pyschologist next week. no threat or reward works. so defiant.
many of the other boys in his yesr are similar, BUT they respond to either gentle talks, or withdrawl of priveledges. ds1 does not. seems to care about nothing. or if he does, it doesn't seem to produce the effect of changing the basic behaviour. at my wits end with him. in fact my love for him has almost diminished becasue i find him so wearing.

Are you all talking about my child!!

Horrid. Threats and consequences dont work.

Send her to her room - when her times up she decides she wants to stay there!!!

Confiscate a tao - plays with the other 100 she has!!

naughty step - sings away.

The only thing she really loves is her muslin squre she snugs up with at night that shes had since she's a baby - shall I take that away - Iwould feel really mean but honestly somethimes I think its the only thing that would make her really listen.

She is very stubborn and hates to give in - or show she is upset or sorry in anyway - i guess thats admitting defeat!!!

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THEM!!!!!

Wow, there's loads of us. Not a bad day today, am trying the nice, very patient approach the next 2 days. Had a play date with his friend from school who came over and wasn't too bad, but it was at ours do was in all day. Going to try to get out tomorrow. It's hard as my dd is 15 months and takes a lot of looking after, very clingy stage.

Hope everyone has good day tomorrow. X

Gosh, can I join in? You have described my 6 year old DD perfectly at the moment - an absolute angel at school and then, for the last four weeks (since we went on holiday) - rude, defiant, violent, constantly pusshing buttons and picking a fight. DD2 is going through a particularly adorable stage at the moment, which doesn't help, and then I also have my hands full with a very active 20 month old DS1.

TV is a constant trigger for DD1's tantrums and sulks so this weekend, after a particularly awful row, DH put the TV away for the week. but her behaviour is jsut getting worse and worse, particularly when we are in the house. This evening she was so awful to DD2 and DC1 - selfish, hitting, rude - I smacked her :( which I have never done before ever.

I'm jsut hoping that things will improve with the start of school. I thnk she needs routine and all the holiday late nights and random activities haven't helped. We've also instituted a reward chart/golden rules etc but they only worked for the first 48 hours. I thinkl one-to-one time with her would help too but that's near-impossible for me at the moment. Has anyone tried that 'How to talk so kids will listen... etc'?

Snap! My 5 yr old DD has been vile lately. Have been reading this thread with great interest! She has a complete meltdown every time I ask her to tidy up and we've had some huge rows where she screams and throws herself around like a toddler. I've yelled and screamed back which I'm not proud of but I've been at the end of my tether. It doesn't help that DS enjoys winding her up, but he is only 2!

Today I started taking tat toys away which quite shocked her so I shall continue with that.

Back to work for me tomorrow which will be a nice break!

OMG OMG OMG! I so wish I'd checked in on this thread sooner. the DH & I have just read all your posts & are soooooooo relieved to know we are not alone. Thank you all so much for replying & apologies for neglecting the thread.
So much of what you have all said rings true for us which is going someway to convince us that it is a phase & that he won't end up in Borstal
To pick out a few points, DS1 does get 1-2-1 time with both of us as we recognised that this is something he needed. In fact the last 2 days its just been me & him, yesterday was pretty shocking but today fab up until time to go in for a bath which then ended in the most horrific screaming, shouting, defiant rage. I give plenty of warning when things are going to happen as we have learnt from past experience that springing things on the DC always ends in rows but just lately even with the warning he still won't oblige, take yesterday for instance. Power Rangers on brekkie TV, told him once that was finished he would need to get his shoes on, then we would go to the library, get some books, then go to the cake shop & then off to the park, 'yep, yep, ok Mummy' Then when the programme had finished 'Don't want to go!' & so on until I gave up and walked out the front door telling him I was going without him & he could forget the cake! So then he's 'OK, OK, I will put my shoes on, I'm sorry, I promise I'll be good - can I still have the cake?' me: 'No' he then goes from the begging & pleading to the 'I WILL HAVE A CAKE!' He gets so angry to the point that I think I am so glad he is smaller than me because if he does this when he's 15 it will be terrifying
Needless to say there was no cake. But today I did the same thing & said we would go for a walk on the hills but go to the cake shop beforehand, well he couldn't have been more different He had remembered what had happened yesterday & today was fab (until bedtime, but i'm prepared to forget about that)
Also, my Dad thinks he has an idea about bringing up children but to be honest he worked so much when we were little that we barely saw him & when we did we were scared of him, I don't know about you but children just don't seem to be scared of grown ups these days, the children I've had back to play can be cheeky little devils & don't listen to anything I say or they're parents say.
I also think DS1 is full of testosterone, incredibly dark hairy legs & couldn't agree more about the PMT bit. I swear he is going through it daily!!
I know its sounds awful but I also hate socialising with him, I hate parties, I try to avoid playdates & if friends say do we want to meet up I am filled with dread because he is so competitive he ends up upsetting everyone if he doesn't win or get his own way
I really truly hope its a phase, I keep telling myself that he might do something amazing when he becomes an adult because he is so determined, bloodyminded & bright.
It would be so interesting to re-group us Mums in 15-20yrs time & find out what our little horrors have made of themselves, maybe then we'll be those smug mummies

Hi wellsie, glad u had a better day today. It's so reassuring reading this thread isn't it?! We too have had a fab day. We made some cakes this morning, then the woods for a picnic this arvo. The patient approach seems to be working and also picking my battles. He so needs routine and hopefully when he's back at school it will be better.

I totally sympathise re the competitiveness, it's awful to watch and the loss of control when things don't go their way. Even if him and I play football and I score he tells me that was no goal! I worry his friends eventually will not want to play with him. Will keep checking in see how everyone is doing. At least I know it's a phase!!!

Just checking in quickly - school in the morning HURRAH!!!!!

I thought that instead of saying the horrible things DD1 did today I'd focus on the positive...smily, singing, pleasant DD1 was with us lots today apart from the major meltdown at tea time.

She asked for an extra kiss at bedtime and called after me 'I love you'

I have been telling both girls and visiting parents about the 'taking the toys away' strategy mentioned on here...I talk about this a few times a day and her behaviour seems to improve soon after. Also using the funfair this weekend as a reward saying "think funfair" when I see a meltdown approaching.

Let's see what differnce the return to school makes for all our little darlings eh?

Hi I'm new on here, my 5 year old has been the same, proper rock star tantrums over the summer, it was getting unbearable. I think he was getting bored but also there was worry & anxiety about going back to school. He has been relatively angelic this evening! a day of school seems to have worked wonders, it must have been fear of the unknown.

Hope things improve for everyone :)