3 Year Old Boy, Says it all Really .....

[hedwig06]

I have 4 DC.

DD's 14 & 10
DS's 8 & 3

DS, 3.7, he is naughty all the time, he always has been, cried continually when small, drew on walls, broke things, hit, punched, smacked, tantrums, etc, etc, but it did get a bit better when I started him at a playgroup, he took ages to settle there, screaming when I left, crying when I picked him up, but eventually he settled and now loves it, has made some great little friends, but he has started again.....

Heres this morning as an example of the last 3/4 weeks:

He got up a 7, demanded sweets, was told no, had a complete meltdown, screaming, crying, throwing things, next was his DB's train set, DB spent 30 minutes setting it up, DS walked over and starting banging another toy on it, breaking it up, nothing I said made him stop, so I eventually physically tried to move him, again big tantrum, next was breakfast, took him 5 minutes at least to answer me what he wanted, he asked for ready break, I made it went to give it him, he knocked it out of my hand all over the carpet, he wasn't even having a tantrum at the time, he just knocked it out of my hand, then he wouldn't get washed, dressed.

I'm so sick of it, I can't be that bad a parent I have 3 other high achieving, polite, well behaved children.

I feel completely shattered, I have tried, naughty step, sending him to bed, distraction techniques, (which worked wonders with the other 3 DC), sticker charts, talking to him, I am at my wits end, I'm ashamed to say I smacked his arm yesterday, but after 15 hours of this I just lost it.

Just to add I am dealing with this 99% of the time on my own, my husband is always working.

Thanks for reading this epic moan if you get to the end of it and any ideas, or hugs will be greatly appreciated.

Thank the Lord its not just me that has a child from hell. I have no advice but I don't feel like a complete failure now!!

Oh, I feel your pain!!! I have your 3 yr boy and like yours has pushed boundaries (I also have another child that is well bahaved). I spend so much time and energy working on getting his behaviour to improve, but I have to admit he stands out as a naught little boy. A book that I base my parenting for him around is "the incredible years" (sorry can't remember the author). But anyway, it's based on positive attention, praising anything good, ignoring if you can and consistent punishment of time out for certain behaviour (hitting, disrupting others). I think (hope) i can see some gradual improvements!!! Well I live in hope!

Clare123,

Thanks for your words, I really feel at the moment that I haven't got the energy to do much with him, sad I know.

I'm working my way through the how to talk.. book which I'm finding great, although if you already have 3 other DCs you probably own it and have read it. That's quite good.

I've also read Divas and Dictators and like that one too.

I have a 3 yr old DD who is often pushing the boundaries too

teaandcakeplease,

I'm feeling your pain, as to the books you recommended, I in all honesty haven't read any parenting books, for any of my children.

I did buy Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph, because of how DS (3) was behaving, and although I did find it informative, it hasn't really helped me.

I do parent with praise in mind, I'm always telling him he's clever, beautiful, etc, but he just says he isn't and shrugs his shoulders at me.

He is a bright little thing, which doesn't help, as he always wants to be another stage from where he actually is, he speaks spanish, writes his name, can count up to 50, and a host of other things. But unfortunately I can't sit and entertain him and pander to him 24 hrs a day.

does he go to pre-school term time? That is my sanity saver!! My son has asked daily to go!

hedwig: I could be completely wrong here, but from your description he sounds like he is unhappy, rather than naughty (although I completely sympathise with how his behaviour is driving you round the twist, as I have a 'difficult' 5-yr-old). If his behaviour has got worse again in the last few weeks (since his pre-school's holidays started?), then can you think of a reason for this or see a pattern in his behaviour?

Yes he does go to a playgroup 3 mornings a week and has a starting date for full time nursery in September.

Also I do think he is unhappy as well, he's got to be, being told off, shouted at, all day, but its a vicious circle. Nothing has happened within the family to start off any unhappiness.

I had plans to go out today, visit his aunt, then to a wacky, but this morning I thought why should I? All he will do is be naughty the whole time, and I really didn't have the energy either.

My DD is worse when she is very tired, so I've tried to ensure she's goes to bed at a good time recently. I'm looking forward to her returning to pre school 4 mornings a week in Sept.

Late afternoon I've taken to walks in a local woods for her to ruin off energy before dinner, bath and bed. That's improving things a little as well.

I'm doing more baking and craft with her too, idle hands and all that My DS whose only 19 months though is a terror already, so I need to keep swatting up on these books myself. I know what you mean about the viscious circle...

• run

My ds is quite a bit younger than yours, but as pp said he behaves like this when he is tired. Does your son go to bed ok? And does he sleep well? My ds is like a different child if he gets a good nights sleep, compared with a disturbed night!

I was going to ask about sleep too - DS is 3 and while usually fine, can be a little bugger when he's tired - hyper, doesn't listen, doesn't care, crashes around destroying stuff etc. It can start within an hour of waking if he's got chronically tired.

We have to be really tough about early bedtimes because he wakes at the same time regardless. But it's so worth it.

Thanks for all your replies, I didn't manage to get on the internet at all yesterday, it was all a bit much to be honest

You all might be onto something here with the tiredness.....

He goes to be at 7.30, in a room he shares with his 8 yr old DB, they both then watch a film or colour, play quietly, talk etc, until 9.30pm, which is when I ask them to go to sleep, it can be 10-10.30 ish before they actually go to sleep though.

He did have his own room, (a loft conversion), but wanted to share with DB who he idolises, so that room is now the playroom.

Both DS then get up at around 6.30-7am.

I will add that he is also under a dietician for a poor diet, he just refuses everything apart from yogurts, bread & jam, chicken, and of course good old choccy, crisps, sweets etc.

Thanks again for your input, obviously things have run away with me, with regard to bed time, there didn't seem any harm at first, but I think I need to sort it out now, but being ground down every day, I don't seem to have the energy to look at things clearly at all,

That's not enough sleep for a 3 yr old. Not at all imo.

Have you ever read this book? It's written by a paediatrician who has worked with children and sleep disorders for 30 years and is very good. He believes temperament and sleep are related and has done studies on it, the results are in his book. My DD turns into a monster without enough sleep, so I tend to agree with him.

That's just my opnion though

hedwig, you poor thing. I agree that sleep (lack of!) is likely to be the culprit. I read some research a while back which showed a strong link with improved behaviour in ADHD and ADD children when they had just a little extra sleep - and from my own experiences with DS (non-ADD) it seems to be common sense for any child.

Don't beat yourself up, you have your hands full and it can be so exhausting when they grind you down. But you can definitely attack this problem and get it sorted out, or at least deal with the sleep thing and its impact on his behaviour.

I'm not sure what to suggest re bedrooms etc - I haven't got older kids so can't really help much. Although I think it might be the case that you have to separate the brothers again, maybe the older child would be willing to help by having earlier bedtimes for a while? Or could he perhaps enjoy a bedtime story with your 3 year old and then play quietly in the playroom until 9 when he joins his little brother (who would hopefully be asleep by then!)?

Hopefully someone with more experience of older kids and how these things fit together will be able to help soon :)

Thedamndog,

Thank you for replying we are going to start tonight, an earlier bedtime, so upstairs at 7pm, then a short film, sleep by 8-8.30 ish, we decided that an earlier night is acceptable for the 8 year old as well, so we will see how things go tonight.

We us luck

If it helps you, if my DD doesn't have a nap, she needs to be in bed by 6.30pm to 7pm and go to sleep immediately. Assuming she's been up since 6.30am. She still may have a nap every other day at the moment after lunch, to help her, as she shares a room with her younger brother who can disturb her from time to time. She is truly awful if she is tired and she sometimes needs these naps to help catch up on lost sleep iyswim? Providing it's no more than 90 mins and between about 1pm to 2.30pm (3pm latest, I must wake her) she still goes down easily at night and straight to sleep. But she doesn't nap everyday now, just if she's woken early, or had a disturbed night, or the day before was very busy.

Maybe I'm unusual though, protecting my DD's sleep and maximising it, is something I work hard to do, as my life is hell if she is overtired.

Really hope things go well for you and get easier x

Wishing you loads of luck ... and do let us know if we're onto something with the sleep theory!

Just wondering if he is playing up because his Dad is away working. Was his Dad around when he started playing up on saturday...

I don't have any children yet (am pg with DS1) but was just trying to take an bjective view based on what flimmflammum said...

Can you have a story instead of him watching film? I think watching TV immediately before being expected to sleep isn't likely to get the results you're after. How about TV for half and hour before getting ready for bed and then a story and then tucked up and lights out / night light on and he can read to himself for a while if he wants to?

sounds like also he could be getting bored in the day? Tiredness and boredom are hideous combination in our house!!!

thank goodness for garden time kiddie friends, pre-school and days out to the park.

I agree, try storytime before bed, i have always found TV to be too stimulating at bedtime unless its 10 minsonly of woody and jessie!!

his diet may have something to do with it ? My DS behaves like a nightmare the more junk he eats! (imo anyway!)

My 2.5yo is like that and not improving despite of all our efforts. He has been alert and a screaming baby since day 1, and now just pushes the boundaries all the time, by hitting, smacking, biting, saying (in a very annoying manner) No to everything and doing everything in opposite than asked. However when he goes to childminder or is minded by others (without my presence) his behaviour is somehow better. He likes pushing the boundaries with mummy and daddy, obviously. After reading many people?s experience, I came to conclusion that some children are like that despite of polite and well mannered other family members. And also, I have read somewhere on MN that cranial osteopathy might help ? some head massage which apparently releases brain pressure, which can make a child to be hyperactive and aggressive. My DS had a difficult birth (with vacuum and forceps), so I want to try something different.. Otherwise he will grow up to a very naughty person :(

Toja - you probably don't want to hear this, but that sounded just like my ds (now 5.5) - but during his reception year that behaviour spilt out into school and home behaviour also deteriorated. It took having a conversation with him that you really don't expect to have with (a then ) 4.9 yo - and setting achievable targets and very strong, unmoveable boundaries. I am pleased to say, however, that that discussion did seem to be a turning point.

However, I do second the sleep issue. If he's tired he's horrid. Although he does need a lot of physical activity during the day.... But he, at 5.5, tends to need a good 11.5hrs a night - and even then sometimes catches up on a bit more in the car.

I would get him a visual timetable with set sleep times/wake ups etc. Get him a clock for his bedroom - the ones with a picture, light thing to show they can get up now.

I would get a good multi vitamin and IQ fish oil, mix it into food/milk if you need to.

He sounds really bright so starting pre school may well be the answer.

Could you have a special day with him if he can get 5stars or something, maybe he needs a bit of building up too??

I'm jut wondering with 3 older siblings and sharing a room with an older brother whether he actually feel he has control over any part of his life. TBH his bed time sounds hideous. He needs calm routine, plenty of sleep and some time alone with you.

I am not criticising but sometimes I have seen older siblings making things pretty rotten for a toddler. Not hitting and such but more like ignoring, pushing them about, dominating proceedings, being mean to them. Maybe also he feels like no one takes any notice of him and he cant compete except by being naughty. Sounds to me like he just needs some 'me time'.

Full time nursery will be a big help if it gets him into a daily routine. It will stimulate and tire him though so he definitely needs his own room. I would say to him that now he is a'big boy' going to nursery he needs his own room.