Page 6 | How would you pronounce Zana ?

RoseApp · 2024-09-18T17:38:41+00:00

My friend assumed people would pronounce her child’s name Zana like Zah-nah as in Suzanna but several people have pronounced it as Zar-na

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AgileGreenSeal · 18/09/2024 20:29

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:25

I'm in London and everybody speaks this way here.

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Thanks for replying.
The regional accents really are fascinating.

I have a question - does the London accent usually pronounce “th” as “f”?

For example - “Firty fousand pounds” for “thirty thousand pounds” ?

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:29

timeforanewmoniker · 18/09/2024 20:25

The best one is when you ask people whether "put" and "but" rhyme, because for northerners they always rhyme and for southerners they don't. Ask a southerner to pronounce them to a northener and watch the complete look of shock as they can hear it's different but can't make them not-rhyme themselves.

Put and but definitely don't rhyme where I live (and it's fairly far north).

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:30

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:26

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

Edited

Thank you for this. You've explained it far better than I could ever hope to 😂

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:30

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:26

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

Edited

It's still not an r sound. 🫣

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:31

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou
I often use this example to illustrate the mutual lack of comprehension.

Lots of kids’ birthday cards feature a lion or dinosaur with mouth wide open and the words “Have a Roarsome Birthday!”

It took me years to realise that it was a pun on the word “Awesome” because non-rhotic speakers say “Roarsome” and “Awesome” almost identically.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:31

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 20:27

Well you are, you’re questioning other people’s accents? It’s the way we speak, it’s very common in the south of the U.K. if you turn on the news here that is how the presenters will speak.

Lots of words in the English language can be spelt a certain way but said another. Silent letters, words spelt the same but sounding different. It’s really common.

And rough and dough are a perfect example of that. The pronunciation differs without there being any extra letters. For us, bath is said as though it sounds like it has an r in it even though it doesn’t.

Edited

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No, I'm questioning adding random letters that aren't there.

MerryMarys · 18/09/2024 20:31

*Neither Zay nor zar

I would say 'Zah - na'*

Yes - I'd also pronounce it as it is spelled so Zah - na.

There's no AY or R!!!

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:32

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:30

It's still not an r sound. 🫣

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It is to some of us!

Monkeysatonthewall · 18/09/2024 20:32

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:26

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

Edited

That is such an amazing explanation, thanks!

napody · 18/09/2024 20:32

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:26

Some folk are saying they actually pronounce an r sound though.
I can understand the extended a.

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I don't think they are- I think it's a big fat misunderstanding all round!
@hotcrossbunplease beautifully done. Is it wrong that I laughed that you'd gone to all that trouble and the @notatinydancer 's response 'Zarna' immediately appeared below! @notatinydancer you mean Zaaahna, don't you? Not a rolled 'r' in the middle? For the sake of rhotic-nonrhotic relations? !😊

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:33

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:32

It is to some of us!

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It isn't though, that's the point.
There is no r.

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:33

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:30

It's still not an r sound. 🫣

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I’m sorry, you’re just being rude or deliberately obtuse now. I spent several paragraphs agreeing with you and explaining that it’s not an “r” sound.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:33

napody · 18/09/2024 20:32

I don't think they are- I think it's a big fat misunderstanding all round!
@hotcrossbunplease beautifully done. Is it wrong that I laughed that you'd gone to all that trouble and the @notatinydancer 's response 'Zarna' immediately appeared below! @notatinydancer you mean Zaaahna, don't you? Not a rolled 'r' in the middle? For the sake of rhotic-nonrhotic relations? !😊

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Nope, some posters are definitely calling it an r sound.

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 20:33

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:31

No, I'm questioning adding random letters that aren't there.

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As I said earlier, this may help,

Z-are-na

Doea that make more sense? It’s very common to have this accent. Very common. Words evolve in different ways and the English language is complex. Many words do not sound as they are written. That is why it is such a difficult language to learn.

napody · 18/09/2024 20:34

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:31

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou
I often use this example to illustrate the mutual lack of comprehension.

Lots of kids’ birthday cards feature a lion or dinosaur with mouth wide open and the words “Have a Roarsome Birthday!”

It took me years to realise that it was a pun on the word “Awesome” because non-rhotic speakers say “Roarsome” and “Awesome” almost identically.

Edited

Love that! Also there's a N Irish comedian who does a great bit on 'paw, poor and pour'

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:34

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:33

I’m sorry, you’re just being rude or deliberately obtuse now. I spent several paragraphs agreeing with you and explaining that it’s not an “r” sound.

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Read the posters asserting that it IS an r sound.

MerryMarys · 18/09/2024 20:34

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

What ?

Why not simply giraafe?

baffledbyworksheets · 18/09/2024 20:34

Can she introduce them as 'zannah like Hannah with a z'?

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:34

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:31

No, I'm questioning adding random letters that aren't there.

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It's not a random letter. The a followed by the r makes the right sound to us. Like "ooh-arrr me hearties".

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:35

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 20:33

As I said earlier, this may help,

Z-are-na

Doea that make more sense? It’s very common to have this accent. Very common. Words evolve in different ways and the English language is complex. Many words do not sound as they are written. That is why it is such a difficult language to learn.

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No, you're adding more letters now.
Spoken correctly Zana is straightforward.
It's our strange spelling rules and mix of influences from other languages which cause difficulties!

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 20:35

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 20:34

It's not a random letter. The a followed by the r makes the right sound to us. Like "ooh-arrr me hearties".

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Wait, I read this in a pirate accent and I think it’s going to make things worse 😂

Like ‘Zarrrrrrrna’

napody · 18/09/2024 20:35

Lol, z-are-na doesnt really help- because the word 'are' is one thing, but the same letters in bare and care is another!

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 20:35

MerryMarys · 18/09/2024 20:34

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

What ?

Why not simply giraafe?

Because it does not occur to the writer that using an “r” will cause confusion.

Dragonsandcats · 18/09/2024 20:36

In my accent, Zarna and Zahna sound the same.
I would pronounce it Zay-na or Zaaaah-na not zanna

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 20:36

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 20:35

No, you're adding more letters now.
Spoken correctly Zana is straightforward.
It's our strange spelling rules and mix of influences from other languages which cause difficulties!

Edited

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Okay, ha ha, all very amusing now.