Saoirse?

[NameNameNameNames]

Follow on from my Isla thread, another name I have in mind is Saoirse.

Sister would still be Hazel, and there’s very little chance of the name being mispronounced

It works both ways though. I'm sure there's many from a unionist background who would worry that a Saoirse wouldn't be particularly welcoming to them.

I don't know that knowingly picking such a politicised name in NI is a sign of progress, much more likely quite the opposite.

Yeah, it’s not just that you anger unionist bigots, and enthuse republican bigots you also have the issue of triggering people who have suffered trauma on account of republicans or who continue to feel fear in their day to day lives.

It stirs up a hornets nest. And I’m not sure I would want to lumber a child with all of that.

I know a few Sorcha’s who would have been Saoirse but for the connotation. So that could be a good alternative.

When you get beyond border counties it isn’t an issue.

@Sparklecats and @ColleenDonaghy i actually think you’re slightly overstating it but I admit I’d pause before naming a child
who would be born and grow up in NI Saoirse, (probably due to my own hang ups and upbringing more than based on any actual fact) BUT the OP isn’t from NI.

And even if her DD moves there in future she will be Saoirse from Dublin or whatever, not Saoirse from the Falls Road, and the connotations and implications are completely different. It’s a bit mad tbh to tell an Irish person that they shouldn’t call their child an Irish name in case some loyalists might take issue with it in future.

Oh I completely agree with you re OP's child growing up in ROI. I was just agreeing with the point that it's not like picking any other Irish name in NI, and wholeheartedly disagreeing with math that picking such politically divisive names in NI is a sign of progress.

As ever when naming a baby, we have to be aware that we won't be the ones living with the name, and so it is good to be aware of potential issues - we may feel we would be comfortable living as Saoirse From Dublin Who Has Moved To Belfast, but it won't be us, it'll be someone else and so we need to weigh it up fully aware that they may have different feelings to us.

A general point, not one specific to OP!

Does it work the other way round too?
I mean, I'm from ROI and know a good few people called Billy and it's simply a name...but I imagine calling your child Billy is much more 'loaded' in NI?

@Mooshamoo, you continually bob up on these issues breads with some deeply weird, entrenched ideas about Anglo-Irish relations., which bear no resemblance to the actuality of either country in my long years of living in both.

OP, I can’t speak for NI, but from my position at the other end of the island, it’s a completely ordinary, well-used name which doesn’t stand out from other standards like Sinéad, Siobhán, Niamh, Caoimhe, Gráinne.

@Darkherds it can work with birthdays too. When I lived in the south there was a guy whose birthday was 12th July…. There was an issue every time he came out.. somebody who knew him would tell the group and then it was a whole thing.

And yes there are stereotypical Protestant names too such as Billy… know a catholic called it and he always gets hassle over it. I don’t know why his mother didn’t shorten it to Liam instead…

Prods you’ll get John, James, Henry, Charles, George, Philip, Richard, Thomas, Simon, Rachel, Rebecca, Eve, Lauren, Elizabeth, Victoria…

Think Royal or biblical to make a point about what you are and what you stand for, rubber stamping again.

But I can’t think of an equivalent name that’s associated with say UDA and unionism, like the way Saoirse would be associated with IRA/republicanism.

Oh, didn't realise names as common as John or James or Thomas could be considered sterotypically Protestant in NI.
They're certainly not in ROI, though some names do indicate your background here too, but not in a problematic way generally.

@Sparklecats where are you actually from?! Loads of the names on your list are equally Catholic names as Protestant. John ffs!

@Darkherds they are definitely not considered stereotypically Protestant in NI, ignore that comment.

Im as Catholic as they come and my brother has one of the allegedly Protestant names 🤣

Thanks @harrietm87. I must say I was surprised. I took it as a list names that might be indicative of background as it were, but I think now @Sparklecats included names that are simply common in the Protestant community too.

I think you’re missing the point of what I was saying with the examples.

You will of course get Catholics called John, James as well just as you’d get some Protestants called Conor, Owen, Shannon, Kerry etc Lot of crossover with names like David too.

The point is the intention behind it, though the categorisation of said person with the name will be less defined. The stereotype is to pick something religious or royal.

As I said before - I am from Antrim, have lived in Armagh, Belfast, Co. Dublin and Co. Wicklow.

In some areas in the north it gets as ridiculous as

Oisín, Daithí, Iarlaith, Gráinne, Clíodhna and Niamh in the catholic school

and 3 streets away
Charles, George, Frederick, Victoria, Rachel and Jennifer from the proddy school.

Unless you have lived north it’s hard to grasp the level of ridiculousness that persists.

Now living in Scotland as couldn’t be bothered with the whole lot of it.

As everyone has said OP if in ROI unless right on the border shouldn’t be an issue.

You’re kidding, right? I grew up in Central Scotland and sectarianism and segregated education is alive and well! My Mum would have recognised “a Catholic name” at 20 paces.

my daughter is called Saoirse and we're both English and live in England. if you like a name, use it. Everyone she knows absolutely loves her name.
Before anyone says she will have difficulty with people spelling and pronouncing it at school etc, my name is also hard to spell and pronounce, people had difficulty with it while i was growing up but i never cared and i love my unique name as im sure she will too 😌

It’s an awful name and the poor kid would have a lifetime of spelling it out. Don’t to that to a child.

@WhatapityWapiti its not as bad, easier to find a house where couple is mixed.

What's awful about it?

Claire/Clare, Sarah/Sara, Catherine/Katherine/Kathryn will have a lifetime of spelling their names, and Helena, Naomi and Alicia will have a lifetime of telling people how to pronounce their names.

OP is in Ireland @YourWinter . It's an Irish name in Ireland.

Yes @Sparklecats as I said I grew up
in a flashpoint area of Belfast during the troubles, so I know full well what you are talking about, but you are exaggerating in an effort to prove your point and it’s actually undermining what you’re saying as it’s all really nuanced.

Everyone from NI is good at assessing stuff about the backgrounds of the people they meet, but that includes first name + surname + address (+ other things like school/workplace/friends/hobbies etc etc). John O’Reilly is probably Catholic, John Adair is probably Protestant, John Smith who knows.

Any Irish name at all used to indicate Catholic/nationalist but that is not the case anymore. I have a DUP voting friend who lives in Finaghy with an Aoife.

I would say though that Saoirse is probably unique in the specific republican (as opposed to Irish/Catholic/nationalist) connotations that it has (if and only it the person is from
NI).

And I don’t think there are any Protestant equivalents at all - even Billy.

Agree with everything @harrietm87 wrote there.

@ColleenDonaghy don't forget Siobhan, Sinead, Lana, Vivienne, Caitlin/Caitlyn/Katelyn/Kaitlin/etc, Niamh, Aisling, Geoffrey/jeffrey... there's SO many spelling variations it's utterly ridiculous that poster would use a lifetime of spelling their name as a reason not to use it, i'm guessing their name is so basic they've never been questioned on the spelling before, boring x

@harrietm87

Yes you’re absolutely right that the surname etc is taken into account too separating the catholic and protestant Johns. The first name is part of the overall “assessment”.

Both DH and I were in Belfast during the troubles and had sectarian attacks against us - marked out due to names/schools. So obviously that will colour our viewpoint, particularly his.

And thankfully we are seeing Protestants using Irish names now, I would have too but for DH.

And I agree Saoirse is a special case, I can’t think of anything else so categorising on its own merit.

This thread is fucking mental.

If you call her Saoirse tell her never to wear a name badge in Donegal 🤣 fuck sake I have seen some shite about Ireland on here but that one beats the band.

It’s a lovely name. One in my daughters class and us non Irish soon got used to how you pronounce it. You’ll be fine in Ireland though