Ottilie

[Snowbell99]

What are your thoughts on Ottilie?

I think it's kind of cute and not so popular.

No, the pronunciation is just plain wrong. Just because a mistake is widely made doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

It's a bit embarrassing, I think, to name your baby something you're pronouncing totally wrong? It's like naming your daughter Niamh pronounced 'Nee-am-h' and then insisting it's correct as it's the English pronunciation 😂

Honestly I'm not sure why you asked for opinions as you don't seem interested in anyone's opinion? Everyone has said iy will date but you're arguing it won't. Okay, so why ask then? FWIW, I'm positive that it will date. Old names can date too
Sharon is a name that comes from the biblical place, it's an old name too, yet it's hideously dated.

I'd also not call it a classic.

@Rosieposie101

No, the pronunciation is just plain wrong. Just because a mistake is widely made doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

It's a bit embarrassing, I think, to name your baby something you're pronouncing totally wrong? It's like naming your daughter Niamh pronounced 'Nee-am-h' and then insisting it's correct as it's the English pronunciation 😂

Honestly I'm not sure why you asked for opinions as you don't seem interested in anyone's opinion? Everyone has said iy will date but you're arguing it won't. Okay, so why ask then? FWIW, I'm positive that it will date. Old names can date too
Sharon is a name that comes from the biblical place, it's an old name too, yet it's hideously dated.

I'd also not call it a classic.

Then Sophie pronounced the English way is also completely wrong. Names from other cultures have been changed and adapted for centuries, it's not a new thing and Ottilie has been used since the 16th century in England.

Of course it will date, I am not denying this. I don't have a problem with people saying that it will date, almost any name dates. It's the fact that some people here are pretty much insisting that it will sound so terribly dated that it will basically be a burden for my child in 20 years when in reality it is still an old name along the lines of Ava and not something that will make people go "Goodness, how could you?" like Kardashyanne-Khailyeesi.

There are differences between a mispronounced name and a name that has been adapted centuries ago. I am part German and speak it fluently, most of my family is German and the English pronunciation doesn't bother any of them at all, it is sort of weird that some people here get upset about it. I mean it's fine to say "I don't care for it pronounced the English way" but saying "it is so wrong, how embarrassing, you are mispronouncing her name" is a bit weird considering that this name has a longer history, even in England, and has been used with that pronunciation for centuries. It's like saying Sophie as SO-fee is a terrible mispronunciation and wrong which is just not accurate.

@Snowbell99, we had some Olivers in the family, so my comment might be skewed.

Jayden isn't a new name, it's a new spelling of a biblical name, Jadon

will sound so terribly dated that it will basically be a burden for my child in 20 years when in reality it is still an old name along the lines of Ava

I don't like Ava. Ava Gardner could carry it off, but it seems a dull, unpleasant-sounding name

[quote WhoppingBigBackside]@Snowbell99, we had some Olivers in the family, so my comment might be skewed.

Jayden isn't a new name, it's a new spelling of a biblical name, Jadon[/quote]
Oliver is a nice name.

I have heard of Jadon and like it but I thought it was JAH-den. My bad.

It’s fine. You have a good reason for your choice, which I like. It’s not to my taste - I think it looks and sounds clunky, and it also now has an image about it, which I’m not keen on.

Sounds like the word the Jawas from Star Wars say to each other

It’s super popular - there are loads in London

I have an Ottilie! I love the name, she is ottie/otter/tilly. My aunt is Swiss and when I introduced her she said swiss/Germans pronounce it with an A at the end like Ottilia Which I think is also really lovely.

@GetYourEightYearOldOutOfATree

The Ott-uh-lee pronunciation that seems accepted in the UK is just wrong. It's like deciding to pronounce (e.g. ) Grainne 'Grain'.

For me Ottilie will always be a woman who had an affair (at least an EA IIRC) in a Goethe novel. It's not one that's come back as part of German old lady chic. And I think in Germany it very much has the same sort of 'posh' vibe as names like Araminta do in the UK.

Agreed on all counts!

Why not Waltraut, pronounced Walltrout? Or Ilse, pronounced Ills?

Charlotte should have LTB, btw.

Ottilie has had different pronunciation from the German in U.K. since way back when. Ottilie Patterson was a jazz singer.

I have a Slav name that no-one can pronounce properly or spell. Names evolve. Saying Ottilie should be pronounced as “Ottilia” is like saying that “Elizabeth” is wrong and it should be “Elisheva” like the original Hebrew.

@MadameFantabulosa

Ottilie has had different pronunciation from the German in U.K. since way back when. Ottilie Patterson was a jazz singer.

I have a Slav name that no-one can pronounce properly or spell. Names evolve. Saying Ottilie should be pronounced as “Ottilia” is like saying that “Elizabeth” is wrong and it should be “Elisheva” like the original Hebrew.

Yes, I agree. Funny how not even my German friends and family are bothered by the adapted pronunciation but people here are going mad about it.

@MadameFantabulosa

Ottilie has had different pronunciation from the German in U.K. since way back when. Ottilie Patterson was a jazz singer.

I have a Slav name that no-one can pronounce properly or spell. Names evolve. Saying Ottilie should be pronounced as “Ottilia” is like saying that “Elizabeth” is wrong and it should be “Elisheva” like the original Hebrew.

It's completely different!

On a far more banal note, I can only think of Otterly Botterly, which would on its own be enough to put me off.

Meh, every Jonathan i know got called Yonathan in Germany. Beatrice is pronounced differently in France. Can't get wound up by people using the common UK pronunciation of a name in the UK.

Re the popularity of a name dating it - why does that matter so much to some people? Claire/Clare is a mid 40s woman. Deborah/Debbie mid 50s. This isn't a bad or embarrassing thing. You probably wouldn't use Claire or Debbie now without people saying "but that's an older woman's name", but it doesn't seem a problem to have a name that makes you think of a woman a particular age.

I can see you wouldn't want your DD to be one of 4 girls with the same name at school, but the fear of a name dating seems strange.

@MargosKaftan, your dates are slightly out. Debbie is more a 60 yr old, Clare 40s and 50s

It is probably not a problem with those two names as they weren't unheard of previously, but look at these from the 1960s

Rank Girls' names Boys' names
1 Susan (1) David (1)
2 Julie (27) Paul (7)
3 Karen (37) Andrew (12)
4 Jacqueline(13) Mark (32)
5 Deborah (59) John (2)
6 Tracey (-) Michael (4)
7 Jane (12) Stephen (3)
8 Helen (22) Ian (13)
9 Diane (33) Robert (6)
10 Sharon (63) Richard (10)

The girls' list is more dated than the boys'. Only Ian seems like it won't come back - probably not a coincidence that it's an anglicised form of a celtic name.

Karen, Julie, Jacqueline and Diane are imported names. Sharon and Tracey were trend names. None of them seem ready for a comeback

The reason people point out that a name will date badly is that at some point it will seem deeply unfashionable

Names like Brenda, Beryl, Hilda and Doris were fresh and faashionable at one point but I've always seen them as mumsy or grannyish

Perhaps it's because because I work with 4 Debbies who are all in their 50s I that think of it as a slightly younger name!

Ottoline is definitely not better.

4 Debbies is a lot.

Most names date. So will Ottilie. So will pretty much every other name that is used more heavily now. Because people age. And when people are older others find their names less attractive because they grew tired from hearing them all of the time or associate them with older people. This is normal and okay. I don't really understand the point you are trying to make because no one is denying the fact that names date and it is completely normal and fine.

Names are used in 100 year cycles. So it is completely normal that Susan and Julie still sound tired and old because their comeback will be in about 40 years. They are just not ready yet. It's not their time yet.

Boys names are different because parents are way more conservative when naming boys. This has only changed much in the past 20 years or so. Andrew, John, Michael etc. were always used. However this is changing now too. When you look at the statistics you will see that these names are falling rapidly. Soon people will think that Andrew and Michael sound sort of old and boring. They are classics, they'll be back. But hardly any names is always fashionable. That is the point.

The only names that don't come back in cycles are usually the modern, new names that have never been used before and have no long etymology (like Jayleigh or Deneen). Unless they have literary associations that will appeal to future generations (I could see it with Lyra). Ottilie is not modern so it will come back in cycles just like it is doing now (it was first used more heavily in Britain in the late 1800s/early 1900s).

When you think about it a truly timeless name is hard to find. Elizabeth is one but that is because the nicknames that were used dated and not the full name itself. So Betty sounds 30s, Liz sounds 60s, Lizzie sounds 80s and Libby 90s. And boys names are a different story because of what I mentioned above.

Even Oliver was really unfashionable between about 1900 and 1970. Rachel, Rebecca, Sarah are Biblical classics but are unfashionable now. Deborah is a Biblical classic but unfashionable now. So is Judith. It's okay, they'll be back and are still fine names.

Ottilie won't date any worse. It is not Deneen or Jayleen or Jakaylah. It will date along the lines of Ava, Cecilia, Clara, Ada etc. and that is fine.

Threads asking for a certain language name get posters suggesting distinctly middle-aged names.

Probably because we are more familiar with the names of foreign film stars or people we work with

or sports stars and footballers

Hilda and Doris are 1920s/1930s names and I am pretty sure they'll be back rather soon. Actress Georgia Tennant recently had a Doris and I have been reading Hilda a few times (it is close to Matilda and Tilda which are fashionable). So in a few years I think we will see them a lot more.

@Rosieposie101

No, the pronunciation is just plain wrong. Just because a mistake is widely made doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

It's a bit embarrassing, I think, to name your baby something you're pronouncing totally wrong? It's like naming your daughter Niamh pronounced 'Nee-am-h' and then insisting it's correct as it's the English pronunciation 😂

Honestly I'm not sure why you asked for opinions as you don't seem interested in anyone's opinion? Everyone has said iy will date but you're arguing it won't. Okay, so why ask then? FWIW, I'm positive that it will date. Old names can date too
Sharon is a name that comes from the biblical place, it's an old name too, yet it's hideously dated.

I'd also not call it a classic.

Apart from the OP’s post above (didn’t you guess she had German heritage from the Otto references?) - it’s a name that is also used in France and it’s the French pronunciation that the British have adopted/adapted.

I love love love the German pronunciation, it's absolutely beautiful. And would set her apart from the other three (probable) Otta-lees in her class

It is otterlie awful