Sine?

[toucanem]

Husband is half Scottish/ half Irish so we're looking for a traditional Gaelic name. Thoughts on Sine? How would you pronounce it?

We have a 4 syllable surname so want a one-two syllable first name.

Middle name will be a traditional Welsh name (my side), we're thinking Ffion, Alys or Elin.

Thank goodness for @florascotia2 on these threads, she knows her stuff and isn't in the least bit 'abrasive'. Just informative and almost always right.

I've come across a few women called Síne over the years. It's Irish, that is the correct spelling (with the fada) and it's pronounced very closely to Sheena - more like SHEE-nuh.

The Irish language is called Irish (if you are speaking English), it really is that simple. IT is NOT called Gaelic. If you're speaking Irish, its still not called Gaelic.

Interestingly, the word Gaeilge is pronounced Gaelic (Gay-lic) by native speakers in Ulster afaik. (I think in Scotland the word Gaelic is pronounced differently though?) Gaeilge is pronounced Gaolainn by native speakers in Munster. The standardised spelling of Gaeilge reflects the Connacht pronunciation. So, lots of ways of naming the language.

I like Órla too OP. Strictly speaking, both Órla and Síne have fadas, at least in Ireland. Lots of people don't use them, but the words without their fadas have different pronunciations and meanings really.

@florascotia2 posts useful stuff.

I am intrigued by this name @toucanem
I love the sound of the name "Sheena", but you say "Seena" spelled "Síne". Is that a family name? It sounds Scandi - is it actually Norn or Orkadian?

I would pronounce it Sheena.

Thank you, DramaAlpace and thank you SeanCallach.

I am very sorry for the typo. I should have been more careful. But it doesn't alter the fact that the goidelic languages spoken by people in Scotland in Ireland are closely related. And that was the point I was making.

I have of course no wish to tell Irish people the name of their own language , but in academic texts, please believe me, the term ' Irish Gaelic' is still sometimes used as classifier, with no intention to offend. For an example, see here www.open.edu/openlearn/languages/gaelic-modern-scotland/content-section-2.6
I was following that practice.

Incidentally, that site has some interesting comparisons between words found in Ireland and in different parts of Scotland and on the Isle of Man.

Being Danish where this name is considered a very normal name (spelled Sine or Signe) I would pronounce it the way op says it. It was 53rd in Danish name charts in 2019 spelled signe and 124th spelled Sine.

Its not a name I ohh over but not is it one I think yuck about. Its a solid sensible name

I have of course no wish to tell Irish people the name of their own language , but in academic texts, please believe me, the term ' Irish Gaelic is still sometimes used as classifier, with no intention to offend.

I've often seen Irish Gaelic used too and would use it myself if speaking with someone who wasn't familiar with Irish as a language. If someone is speaking about Irish and Scottish Gaelic as a group they often use the term Gaelic or Gaelic languages to encompass both. I don't know why people get so upset about this tbh, and I'm usually fairly pernickety about things. I was trying to help DS with his Irish homework yesterday - on a scale of 1 to 10 of 'being annoying' I score a 99 apparently (possibly his maths need some work too).

@Enko I never knew Sine was a Danish name - does it have a meaning in Danish?

It's a pretty name but I suspect it will be mispronounced as 'sign' or 'sinny' a lot.

Ffion, Alys and Elin are all lovely as middle or first names. You may also like Eira, Eirlys, Tesni, Mari and Nia. Haf is a popular middle name in Wales.

If baby is having Dad's surname I would push for your heritage to be reflected in the first name and his in the middle name. Otherwise his side gets both first and last name.

I think Ffion, Alys and Elin are all nicer than Sine and the pronunciation is more obvious, especially for Elin - I worked with one and everyone said it correctly. That never happens with my Welsh name and I have worked with Hefin, Angharad, Geraint and Sian and those names were all mispronounced so Elin is nice and straightforward.

I don't know why people get so upset about this tbh, and I'm usually fairly pernickety about things

Yes it's bizarre when people whose language was destroyed by a colonising country get annoyed when citizens of that country get the name of the language wrong and don't listen to advice that they are wrong, instead huffing about the advisor being ridiculous to want the proper term used.
Absolutely inconcievable.

You don't have to care about it, but plenty of other people do.

Orla Jane (surname)
Elin Louise (surname)
Alys Marie (surname)

Surname is four syllables isn’t it? Go with something short and sweet. I love Elin so much, I am getting very jealous 😂

@Fufumuji
The point is that Gaelic is a language group as well as a term often used for Scottish Gaelic alone, (with Irish used for Irish Gaelic). You were objecting to certain names being described as Gaelic rather than Irish - but names are sometimes common to both Scotland and Ireland, and even if they're not it's still accurate to describe names from either country as belonging to the language group.
I think you over-reacted, but as you say, that's your choice.

Also, if you spend time on these threads you'll know how much florascotia2 cares for the Gaelic languages.

Gaeilge, sorry. I copied a typo. FWIW, Irish people I know seem to say it as Gaelic, and scottish people I know seem to say it almost as Gallic.

@ItsSine pretty much sums up my experience of having a name that people don't know how to say.

How about Aisling? Pronounced Ashling by most. Gorgeous name.

Cé hí a sheól an memo nach bhfuil cead againn "Gaelic" a chur ar ár dteanga féin? Agus cad chuige? Ní bhfuair mise an memo- sin.

In any case, it seems the name the OP has in mind is an old Norse name, so not Gaelic of any nationality.

I'm Scottish and in my area it is pronounced Sheena. It's a lovely name.

Ok after a long chat with DH, think we're going down the Orla route. I've taken everything you've all said on board, thank you!

So do we think:
Orla Ffion
Orla Alys
Orla Elin

@ReggieKrait I think I'm favouring Elin 😊

Someone up thread asked where we are living, we're in Wales.

I'm Irish and have never come across it before. Without the fada as written I would have pronounced it as sign. I'm not sure I would have pronounced it as Sheena even with the fada though.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

How about Aisling? Pronounced Ashling by most. Gorgeous name.

It is gorgeous but we have an Aisling in our family already.

@CaffiSaliMali

It's a pretty name but I suspect it will be mispronounced as 'sign' or 'sinny' a lot.

Ffion, Alys and Elin are all lovely as middle or first names. You may also like Eira, Eirlys, Tesni, Mari and Nia. Haf is a popular middle name in Wales.

If baby is having Dad's surname I would push for your heritage to be reflected in the first name and his in the middle name. Otherwise his side gets both first and last name.

I think Ffion, Alys and Elin are all nicer than Sine and the pronunciation is more obvious, especially for Elin - I worked with one and everyone said it correctly. That never happens with my Welsh name and I have worked with Hefin, Angharad, Geraint and Sian and those names were all mispronounced so Elin is nice and straightforward.

Thank you, what you've said is very interesting and food for thought. I really like the name Mari.

Mari is much nicer than Orla. Orla tends to be Awla outside Ireland, which is a bit meh but the Irish pronunciation is nice.

I'd try the name with the surname.
Something like Mari McAllister sounds nice (first 4 syllable surname that came to mind). Your other 3 middle names are fine too. All are fairly popular names so you won't get a reaction.

Mari isn't great as a middle name, Mair would probably be better and it's a very pretty name. Mair is pronounced like My with an r on the end like in My Redward, which sounds the same as Mair Edward.

Yay Elin! That’s made me happy 😊

Thank you, what you've said is very interesting and food for thought.
I really like the name Mari.

I thought you might, Alys and Mari are very high on my list. I also love Ffion and Elin but have relatives with those names so I can't use them but I thought we had similar tastes!

Sheena is a lovely name, and underused. I’d go with that. I’m not fond of Orla.

Orla very much has an 'r' in it outside of the SE and RP pronounciation.