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Donte / Dontae for a white british boy?!

82 replies

emmagreen481 · 02/11/2018 17:16

I'm 23 weeks pregnant with a boy and I am really struggling with finding a name. I've looked at almost every possible name on this planet and I don't like any of them. The only one I've considered is Donte / Dontae pronounced don-tay however everyone I've spoke to about it has told me it's a black man's name, is this true?! and does it even matter?
Before anyone mentions it, I have thought about the name Dante instead and I don't like it

OP posts:
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slappinthebass · 10/11/2018 12:00

The only Dante's I have met have been pronounced Don-Tay. If you like that pronunciation then I'd use it.

Clueing4looks · 10/11/2018 12:24

What about koby? Has a similar feel to me

Urbanbeetler · 10/11/2018 12:52

But Alia or Alya is the female version of Ali. In Arabic, it’s like Ali-a. You wouldn’t pronounce the boy’s name Ali as Ar-li.

CookingGood · 10/11/2018 13:01

Like Mohammed Ali?

roundtable · 10/11/2018 13:02

Since op isn't living in America it's kind of a moot point.

It's really not the same as cultural appropriation. It's someone who likes a name and wants to give it to her child.

Or do you think, being a black person myself, I should have limited my dc name choices to black people's names? I didn't so I'm guilty of cultural appropriation too.

LEMtheoriginal · 10/11/2018 13:09

Irrelevant now because you have decided against it but donte just looks like a pretentious spelling of dante.

I like dante though.

However if my dd were a boy she would have been Leon.

DangerMouse17 · 10/11/2018 13:12

Dante is fine for a white child. You aren't in segregated America who seem to even split up every shade of blackness into it's own separate race.

SleepingStandingUp · 10/11/2018 13:41

roundtable I dint think thonk you can do it back? Which is where it gets confusing. How much does a name / anything need to be used by culture1 which originated in culture2 for culture2 to not be able to use it any more if only culture2 can culturally appropriate?

mathanxiety · 10/11/2018 20:41

Roundtable, the cultural appropriation bit seems only to be an issue when elements of the culture of the oppressed group are used by those outside of that group.

Hence controversies about ethnic or ethnic-inspired clothing, university mascots that are stereotypes of, for instance, native Americans, corn row hairstyles and much more in the US.

It isn't an issue the other way round. The (private, RC) University of Notre Dame (aka 'The Fighting Irish') have a belligerent leprechaun figure as their mascot and it doesn't raise an eyebrow. The University of Illinois otoh had to retire 'Chief Illiniwek'. www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/us/native-americans-sports-mascots-illinois.html

A child born in the UK won't necessarily spend his or her whole life there, or work for UK companies even if staying put.

roundtable · 11/11/2018 11:06

One of my dc names is Jewish - they're an oppressed group.

Regardless, I still don't think using a name that you've decided is too African American is cultural appropriation. You may have had a slight point if op was American or said in her op that she planning on moving there but she hasn't. Names have diversified and I think that's a positive thing. Maybe one day we'll get to the point where we don't discriminate or make assumptions about people based on their name. I'm not holding my breath though.

Are you African American out of interest or are you speaking on behalf of them?

Anyway, I'm sure now the op has decided against it due to some posters strong opinions it's probably not on to keep dragging this out.

Probably best to agree to disagree.

mathanxiety · 11/11/2018 19:50

No, not African American or speaking on behalf of anyone African American. But I have conversed with many African American friends and one friend who has native American heritage and what I have posted here is what I have learned from those conversations. My friends tend to be MC and all had given a good deal of thought to the names they chose for their children.

I see it as respectful, not discriminatory, to steer clear of some names. To me it's a question of balance of power.

www.babynamewizard.com/forum/cultural-appropriation-of-names
A discussion here^^.

This post in many ways sums up my point:
When an individual or culture is oppressed, one of the most basic ways of resisting oppression is through naming. There might be "secret" personal names that aren't used in front of oppressors or that don't make sense to the more powerful culture... on the flip-side, children might be given names from the oppressing culture, to help that child blend in better and to take some of the power for that child.

When individuals from the more powerful group "borrow" names from the less powerful group, therefore, it can be felt as yet another example of the more powerful blithely stepping on the culture and autonomy of the less powerful. The greater and more long-standing the power imbalance, and the more important to or representative of the culture the particular name is, the stronger the negative feelings about this practice are likely to be.

In the other direction, parents from the more marginalized group "borrowing" names from the dominant group might be seen by members of the dominant group to be (rightly) trying to assimilate or to be (unjustifiably) "aping their betters", according to the particulars of the group dynamics and the dominant individual in question. It might also pass entirely unnoticed, since the dominant names are normalized where traditional names of the oppressed group would be seen as deviant...

SleepingStandingUp · 12/11/2018 10:57

Which might be fine if you're saying Hi I'm White a British for as many generations as I can count, what do you think of Abimbola for a girl? Which has definite African origins. But if we're talking about a name with Latin / Italian roots (Dante / Dontae) which has been adopted by another culture how do you decide that original culture can no longer use it?

mathanxiety · 12/11/2018 18:43

You're free to use it of course. But I think taking cultural sensitivities of the group that has overwhelmingly claimed it is more polite.

ToddlerTamerMumma · 12/11/2018 18:50

If you like it then it doesn't mAtter if its a name that's more likely to be for black child (if there are such names!). I'd say it's unusual where I live, but most kids where I live have traditional names though

SleepingStandingUp · 12/11/2018 21:12

Math have you got the statistics on that? % of African American children named Dante or derivatives compared to White European over say the last 50 years?

mathanxiety · 13/11/2018 06:58

www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Dante

The closest I can manage is this link ^^ which may shed a little light.
(There are many variant names too).

Names are not divided up according to declared race for official statistical purposes in the US afaik so actual numbers are hard to come by.

In an anglophone region (such as the UK or the US) I don't think popularity of names of babies in non-English speaking regions is relevant. The cultural references will be stronger within the Anglophone region.

The link shows the popularity of the name is greatest in the US.

LasMeninas · 13/11/2018 08:55

I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't really see any issue with using the name Dante for a white kid in the UK. We are much closer to Europe than the US and I generally meetmuch Italians, Spanish, French and Portuguese than Americans.

SleepingStandingUp · 13/11/2018 08:57

I asked if you'd got one cos I couldn't find anything with actual p) figures other than a rough guide in popularity. Given its Latin origins it couldn't just be Italy either.

There's a lot more people in America than Italy so comparisons are hard. Dante would have a linger standing in Italy than America.

If tomorrow every African American girl born was named Charlotte, Elizabeth or Katherine at what point would you say thry can no longer be used for white European children??

I think it's different where a name has a SOLID cultural ORIGIN but you can't just decide midlife of a name it's no longer permissable.
What about older Dante's? Should they provide evidence that it was more popular in their culture when they were named? What about a line of Dante's named after forefathers? Or an era when the popularity was contestable but Internet usage and name compiling and thinking to check "how many African Americans are named X" before choosing a name?

I would also question whether those that told OP she can't were worried about cultural Appropriation and her son's future life in America or were just bloody racist. I certainly had a few comments about "choosing a black kids name" from people who wouldn't know CA if it came up and slapped them. And no, I picked an Italian one Inn the end by preference of name

mathanxiety · 13/11/2018 21:40

I don't think anyone is going to be taken to court over the name, or asked to prove the existence of a long line of forbears. I do think the possibility of cultural appropriation should be taken into account though.

The 'popularity outside the US' graph in the link indicates that Sweden is the only other place where it has been used enough, and only in the last few years at that, to generate a statistic. So while the name may surface in Europe and South America, it's mainly an African American thing at this point.

Wrt names like Catherine, Elizabeth, etc - what is at play in cultural appropriation from the African American pov is taking names that have a long standing in an oppressed community that experienced a movement a few decades ago towards embracing its 'otherness', celebrating what made it different from the mainstream that had excluded it for so long. Hence Afros and other natural hair styles, headwrap wearing, claiming of other cultural markers, and names that have diverged significantly from mainstream Anglo- American norms.

It's not a factor the other way round, when Anglo names are the default, the mainstream culture.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/11/2018 09:43

I didn't mean it was an issue the other way round, I mean if a trad white English name say Elizabeth is used for every third baby born to African or African American parents at what point do you decide white English parents are culturally appropriating a name that is now highly associated with African/African American people? The point is with names like Dante there isn't a clear African providence to stop someone else using it, and as cultural Appropriation doesn't work within Western Europe thry don't need to prove Italian heritage.
Naming him Adebowale would be a different argument.

That website is soooo addictive. Mine and my sons name are both big in Australia which is randomly cool

dogwoofbark · 14/11/2018 09:53

Ahhhh when white people tell black people what they should be offended by. Grin😂

I have a very black name. It was used in a book about slavery.

I'm very white. I'm have many black friends. Nobody has ever been in the slightest bit offended. That's what I miss about Britain. America and race is just ridiculous.

glitterfarts · 14/11/2018 10:08

Marco, Leon, Luca, Matteo, Leonardo, Diego, GIovanni, Nicholas/Nicolo?

I like Dante and know a little boy (white) with the name.
Don't like the other spellings.

Tartanwallpaper · 14/11/2018 10:13

I like it and why would it matter if a lot of African American boys have the name, presumably their mothers also chose the name because they like the sound of it. I don't like it spelled Dontae though because I misread it and thought it said Donate

NKFell · 15/11/2018 03:02

To me I wouldn't assume 'Dante' is black, or white. 'Donte' I would probably assume black but wouldn't have a problem.

I'm with SleepingStandingUp on this one. I don't think it's wise to consider how Americans might feel about it (which sounds much ruder than I intend btw!) just because they have such immense and intense issues with race. I think once an African American realised 'Dante' (the person) was British they wouldn't be bothered.

Birdie6 · 15/11/2018 03:26

Yes, go for something else. Everyone will call him Dan , so if you don't like that, go with something else.