Names and Careers

[Glindathegoodwitch]

I often read on here & see people commenting on the posts along the lines of

'He/She would never get taken seriously in the professional world'
'Imagine Dr Such and such name'
'Imagine going for a job interview with that name'

Are people genuinely serious when posting this? Or is it just a jibe they feel that they can use at a name they don't personally like?

If I were in a position to interview somebody, which I have been in the past, it wouldn't even be on my radar to take their name into consideration. I mean, I may raise an eyebrow at a name, pull a face (in my head) at a name or more than likely it would intrigue me. But never in a million years would I stop a clearly capable person or perfect candidate for a job on the basis of their name that they didn't choose for themselves? A name doesn't define character or capability surely?

And if Dr Princess Consuela Bananahammock wanted to save my life or someone close to me's life by performing open heart surgery, I wouldn't say 'Sorry. No, I just cant take you and your name seriously!'

In equal measure, I would not name a child 'Richard', 'Bill' or 'Alan' presuming that will mean they will become a multi billionaire entrepreneur....

I just want to know if people genuinely believe what they are saying???

That's not remotely how statistics work. Its painful to read such shit.

It seems there are two factors at play here:

1. Some people will judge people on their names if misspelled, or belonging to a particular ethnicity or class - there's research evidence for this and we also see it regularly on the naming boards, especially when the ONS lists are released. Clearly some posters prefer to think this issue doesn't exist, but my experience is that it does.

1. Children born to parents who are more likely to choose outrageous or misspelled names are likely to be in either a very high socioeconomic bracket (celebs or wealthy) and so their name will not limit their opportunities, or in a much lower socioeconomic bracket where their access to opportunities is much less, and they are more likely to be judged based on their name/lifestyle etc

The name per se may not be a problem, but if the name represents a lack of education, or a particular class or race, then people are likely to make judgements on that.

Spot on.

Didn't freakonomics kind of sit on the fence in the end? I read the book years ago and I thought it was more the link between the fact that the parent was attracted to the name de'shawna-preshus (example) in the first place that had the most influence in the end. ie, not their name but that their parent, the one(s) raising them and influencing them chose a bonkers name for them....

That was the impression I got when I read the book about ten years ago.

UrethraFranklin1 is correct and it's backed up by statistics and data.

I feel like testing this.

Applying for jobs with the same CV but with two different names

"Emily Jones" and "Millie-maie Jones"

I was just as guilty of wanting that same holy grail as all other pregnant mothers though! I wanted names that wouldn't be a handicap in any way, names that weren't so unusual they would cause difficulty, but not so common there'd be another in their class. I think I got it right as the whole way through primary school neither of my children had another child in the entire school (280) with the same name. The names are neither upper class nor 'lower class' :-p But where they fell down, I felt (!) is in that moment where you announce the baby's name! You want people to coo and wow over your choice in the moment. My children's names have weathered their first decade well. But definitely, when I told people their names, I could tell their was a bit of an underwhelmed ripple of reaction rather than omg that's so cute, I totally love that.

It was recently tested in denmark, with landlords not employers put to the test though. You're better off having a very normal name if you are renting. Whatever about job hunting!

MagalyMaman yes they did, because they concluded that the stats showed something, but they couldn't work out whether it was cause or effect that was driving it.

This is why I point out that coming from different backgrounds, you are extremely unlikely to have the same CV so these 'tests' are flawed in that they don't reflect the actual life experience which may give kids who have had to struggle might have which could well be an asset rather than a drawback if they reach that stage in the process.

The point about it having being tested in Denmark on renters still has some of the same flaws. Its a certain social group that are likely to rent rather than buy in the first place, so its not the best reflection on social mobility. More than likely that's about wanting more middle class people who conform and are less likely to be 'problems' because they don't conform and are therefore anti-social.

Middle class people who don't conform, are more likely to be highly educated and then therefore have a better job and therefore buy. And you'd be more likely to have a particular type of unusual name anyway which has different connotations. And high flyers from lower classes who also don't conform and have unusual lower class names will also aspire to buy too thus bypassing the whole system of long term renting in the 'better' areas in the long term anyway.

One of my children has a name that others either consider "posh" or "black" , we are white. Nobody knows how to spell or pronounce it. I have apologised and my child says they like it as it makes them stand out and it gives the class a laugh when dd refuses to answer a Teacher unless her name is pronounced correctly. The whole class will collectively correct the Teacher the first few times, so no excuse really.

Logically speaking, the name shouldn't make a difference. But subconsciously it does. Those of you who are not convinced, how would you feel if you went for an appointment with your surgeon and they had blue hair, multiple tattoos, multiple piercings and a (pick-your-own-choice-of-lower-class) accent. Would you trust them? No reason you shouldn't, logically speaking. But there is a certain expectation from the general public regarding appearance, especially from the older generation, and the same principle applies to names (except it is harder for the person to change them).

Call it anecdote (because it is) but in my 15 years as a doctor I have not come across any Oceans, Chardonnays, Tee-jays, or Pocahontas'. The vast vast majority are Sarahs or Michaels. Whatever it is that is stopping them, something is.

That should say 'stopping them becoming doctors'. I've come across lots as patients!

Incidentally, Skypod is my new favourite name ever! Are they a boy or girl?

Urethra and Nell are correct. I had to look at quite a lot if this stuff as part of my work.

(But you can become a high court judge with an unusual name. Christmas Hunphries was a noted one, and he was a Buddhist too, unusual then. And Cherie would have been down the socio economic rankings in her day. But she is brilliant. Won't comment about her spouse. )

The correlation v causality issue is afair the whole point if freakenomics.

What is interesting to me is that this appears to be the case in the US, the UK, and clearly less class ridden Denmark. Obv much easier if you live in somewhere that only permits choice from a list if names. Wasn't France like that at one point?

Actually, in Denmark very nearly 50% of the population rent rather than own their homes. It's one of the highest percentages in the EU / EEA. It's also much less a class thing there - as in Germany and Switzerland many middle-class and professional people rent.

So it's not a certain social group that rents in Denmark. Renters are more representative of the general population than in some other countries, including, arguably, the UK. (Although the situation is changing here, too - see the ONS paper on trends in the UK housing market).

The female dr on that embarassing bodies show is called 'Pixie'. She's done alright considering...

I do agree though that names on cv's are judged.

I think her real name is Bernadette, IIRC

Pixie is Irish and I think, her real name isn't Pixie, so she chose to use it instead of her given name. I wonder at what point in her career she decided to become Pixie! Just before a tv contract? cyncial Patricia Mckenna? Pauline MCKenna?

No way DriverSurpriseMe!! Bernie and Pixie, in some ways quite alike! in other ways, poles apart!

btw, ronan keating's new wife's name is now known to be 'Sharon' not Storm.

I don't know about anyone else but I have never known my doctors first name and when I did Jury service we never heard the judge's first name either.
My doctor could be called crapbag for all I know.

There's a difference, IMO, between a name that may suggest a particular socio-economic group in the UK (Jaden, Riley, Mason etc) and babyish names (Betsy, Gracie-Boo etc).

The former group are equally appropriate for grown adults, children and babies, whilst the second group infantilises the owner.

Posted too soon!

Meant to say, I think on balance I'd rather have a name from the first group than the second.

And Poppy isn't cutesy.

I think one thing that is really important to note here is that there are two factors in names that have been as I understand it clearly and repeatedly proved to affect your prospects (in studies using standard CVs submitted in different names, for example)

1. Being perceived to be female
2. Being perceived to be from an ethinic minority.

Perhaps tackling sexism and racism in society might be a higher priority than criticising people for giving their children 'unsuitable' names.

The High Court judge example is a perfect one. Frankly, it's unlikely to make a big difference if you're called Poppy or Catherine. What you really need to be called is James . . . .

I completely agree! You see it all the time as a teacher.

The names in the class list of my top sets vs my bottom sets - and the aspirations and job outlook of each are clear.

I really want to know a name considered both 'posh' and 'black' and that is obscure! I'm not doubting it, just insanely curious.