Names and Careers

[Glindathegoodwitch]

I often read on here & see people commenting on the posts along the lines of

'He/She would never get taken seriously in the professional world'
'Imagine Dr Such and such name'
'Imagine going for a job interview with that name'

Are people genuinely serious when posting this? Or is it just a jibe they feel that they can use at a name they don't personally like?

If I were in a position to interview somebody, which I have been in the past, it wouldn't even be on my radar to take their name into consideration. I mean, I may raise an eyebrow at a name, pull a face (in my head) at a name or more than likely it would intrigue me. But never in a million years would I stop a clearly capable person or perfect candidate for a job on the basis of their name that they didn't choose for themselves? A name doesn't define character or capability surely?

And if Dr Princess Consuela Bananahammock wanted to save my life or someone close to me's life by performing open heart surgery, I wouldn't say 'Sorry. No, I just cant take you and your name seriously!'

In equal measure, I would not name a child 'Richard', 'Bill' or 'Alan' presuming that will mean they will become a multi billionaire entrepreneur....

I just want to know if people genuinely believe what they are saying???

I don't actually know the names of many high court judges but unusual names don't seem to hinder liberal democrat MPs. Ming, for example

It's Menzies! It's a Scottish name.

Ha! Well you live and learn

I know a doctor called Britney. I met her once, several years ago, and remember because it is so unusual. I know far more doctors called Tom, Matthew, Charlotte, Elizabeth, etc.
I'm sure it is not just the name that makes the difference and it would be simplistic to think it is.

UrethraFranklin1 is unfortunately right but I believe the reason she is right is because of the prejudice and downright nasty snobbery within society and her own posts are socked in this. People judging others names, do you also advice against foreign or black sounding names?

fake, I would guess that the answer is yes. I have seen a lot of negative reactions to Irish names spelt the Irish way as people seem to think that having to spell your name out to people for your whole life is a problem.

I don't actually think it is a problem. It is the case with my name that no one ever spells it correctly, I don't care - its an unusual name with an unusual spelling. But this seems to be a big problem on MN.

DS has a "black" name, he is a pale little celt. I chose the name because I love it and I don't give a stuff what people MN think. But I did give him a very normal middle name which he hates. On the plus side as his name is one syllable he has never had to spell it

It completely depends on the name. If you call your child hashtag or char-donet people will laugh at the name and it will hinder the child.
There is a very large pool of names that are acceptable these days and it just doesn't follow that only classic traditional names go far in life BECAUSE of the name. It just happens to be that a lot of wealthier, higher class fee paying school parents tend to opt for these names.
I have employed many people and I am usually drawn to the unusual names. They tend to stick in my mind if I'm looking through 100's of CVs.

This is what worries me about naming my daughter (currently preg)

I want her to be taken seriously when she grows up so don't want to give her a cutesy girl name. So many girls names are like this though.

No its not just the name, that's the whole point. Its easy for posters to think I'm a snob rather than understand the truth of how the world actually works. I don't care, I'm not remotely a snob, I'm just a realist.

Everybody judges everything all the time. Its how the human brain works, we have a constant need to categorise. All of you pretending to be above such things do it too, at least some of us are honest about it.

Its a very complex area that involves far more than just a name, and I'm surprised people can't see that. I guess people prefer to think they live in a much nicer world than they actually do.

People do make judgements all the time, course they do, but that will be the case regardless of what name you choose.
An arty profession might dismiss a John Smith over an Artemis Fox, and might be drawn to a Camelia over a Harriet. Who's more likely to be noticed as a musician? Yes lots of famous people have normal names but a more creative, unusual name tends to help (hence people creating stage names)
The reason I dismiss the studies offered as fact is because they can't control for other variables. The average parent of an Elizabeth is likely to be different than an average parent of a Poppy but that doesn't mean that if the Poppy was born to the Elizabeths parents she wouldn't have the same chance in life and be just as successful (whatever that means).
Names that are spelt incorrectly or ridiculous I agree are limiting, but provided the name is acceptable amongst the child's peers and not laughable, they will find their own way in the world.

YY exactly Benchmark. Because it's 'not just the name', that's exactly why people hand-wringing over it on these boards are (bar seriously extreme cases) missing the point. Being called Wayne etc is unlikely to be the problem. Being born to 'the kind of parent who calls their son Wayne' is.

I still think the best course of remedial action is for lots of people to choose names which buck those trends, and thankfully I think that's something that is happening. But then I would say that - neither my parenting or my politics are about advancing my child's relative prospects.

(DS has an Old Testament name, which is familiar to his 'troubled inner-city' home without I think becoming a byword for either his class or ethnic background. I rather like this ambiguity.)

You can't dismiss any studies offered as fact, because no studies have been offered as fact. No citings given, and no-one with any sense of science offers studies as fact

My boss thinks it's chavvy not to have a middle name. He's a see you next Tuesday and religious to boot. But it's true that some names are more common than others in professional jobs, like Thomas, Daniel, Catherine, Elizabeth, Andrew, Christopher etc.

You were dismissing posters anecdotal evidence based on the fact that your 'evidence' was based in science, psychological research etc and therefore more reliable.
I am therefore questioning the validity of this research, and if you read the post by Nell who appears extremely knowledgeable on the subject (and puts it far better than me) you would understand why.

completely agree Nell. The fact that there is this fear over using an unusual name means that parents most concerned about their kids becoming high court judges/doctors/lawyers (generally middle class, affluent parents) stick to using the same pool of traditional names out of fear that they will somehow limit their child's chances if they don't, therefore increasing the amont of high court judges with those names - exacerbating the problem.
You see it all the time on here - I love the name Daisy but is it suitable for a high court court? This frustrates me so much.

A Daisy is a pretty flower and a feminine name. Why should a feminine name be considered weak or cutesy? Just because we have preconceived ideas of what is 'acceptable'. We are fuelling the prejudice. If we were to see more Daisy's in those roles, the prejudice would disappear.

why does everyone want their children to be doctors there are other career paths just as good....

Everyone on this thread has made the generalisation that unusual names are the preserve of lower classes.

Which is bollocks. Even the freakonomics stuff says that.

The middle classes are the most likely to stick with safe names and names they perceive to be upper middle class or upper class. So in some ways it confines a child to a certain expectation as much as 'chavvy' name might be seen to hold back a lower class kid. Its all a reflection of expectation and shows what people think to be important. Which includes conformity.

You then get highly educated mothers (see the link on the first page from freakonomics) giving their kids unusual names. Think the Persephones and Ptolemys of MN fame. This is a statement of culture and the value they put on education and almost an act of superiority.

Being called Ptolemy might not hinder you going for a job as a university lecturer. Being called Ptolemy might be a bit of a handicap if you are going for an apprenticeship as a car mechanic though.

I also have to say that if Flora-Marmite from the shitty background wanted a job that much, as a High Court judge, and did get as far as the interview stage, I don't think her CV would be the same as Persephone with the well placed parents. I think their life experience is liable to be different and they would have different skills that would be reflected in their CV. I suspect Flora-Marmite is liable to have done more to get to that position compared to Persephone who has relied more on the straight path through education alone. The truth is that Flora-Marmite is never likely to want to aspire to be a High Court judge though.

I do think it ultimately comes down to the path your parents send you on and how determined you - and they - are to achieve your goals. Just because you come from a privileged background does not mean you have the right attitude.

I think really names are mirrors to the parents rather than the child. And that's can be even harder to swallow than thinking about what it means for your child. What does it say about you as a parent?

Its all cause and effect.

Interestingly, celebs calling their children wacky names highlights the whole thought process. Who do they have to prove themselves to? Won't their name open doors regardless of what they call their children? Are they bound by the same expectations of conformity and the social ladder? Or does being at the top give you the freedom and confidence to call your children unusual names. Perhaps we should question the celebrities who don't give their kids unusual names more, because perhaps that shows something about them too.

It's not necessarily that anyone wishes for their child to become a doctor. More that they don't want to limit their prospects. The doctor is just an example of a traditional middle class job.

I doubt very much that a Daisy will have limited prospects. It's a well recognised and properly spelled name. A bit cutsie to be sure, but in a generation of cutsie named girls that is unlikely to stand out.

I have a very unusual name. It gets comments all the time, but they are mostly positive, and I do get remembered (for good or ill!). However it is similar enough to other mainstream traditional names that no one has any particular preconceptions. It stands out but not in a negative way and I doubt very much that anyone has ever though, even subconsciously 'a person with that name won't fit in here'.

The UK is still very class dominated, and names area marker of class. It's foolish to deny this I think. Why give your child a handicap?

Oh and maybe I should add given my cross post with RedToothBrush that my name is more in the Ptolemy realm than the Flora-Marmite.

I don't think that the High Court judge rule is a particularly good one really, because it's more whether a person with a tricky name is likely to get articled (ie a job as a trainee). Generally once you get going in a profession (or any other career or trade) then you have a lot more to sell than your name. It's the first foothold that's the difficult one, where something as trivial as a name might make a difference.

Also I suspect in my generation the people with cutsie names may well have chosen them themselves - ie a Betsie is likely to be an Elisabeth who wanted to be considered sweeter, so it's a reflection on their personality, whereas parents might well choose Betsie for a birth certificate now, so it's a reflection on background instead.

My name is very unusual too and also would be more Ursula than Dayzee. I ageee that socioeconomics play a part in career choice but I wonder if there are more John's, Oliver's and Thomas's in professions simply because they are just more common names. As far as i know there is no one else with my name in my profession.

I agree to a certain extent.
My son has a few friends with unusual names which I've shared with people who's reaction says it all really, "WTF" usually.
Examples: Ocean, Ace, Chase and Wolfrick.
Really? I just think naming your child something unusual could hinder them in the sense people will be thinking HUH?! And may not get taken seriously. And I base this a lot from the reactions of the people I've told.
I have gone through some unusual names for this baby I'm pregnant with and have come up with a nice elegant English name that isn't going to be WTF how do you spell that, I don't want that horrible reaction for her. Sad but true.

Poppy and Lily conform to the generation being top 15 names. So being cutesy does not matter at all. The same for Daisy as its on trend with flowers.

I actually think that there are fewer names that are not well accepted compared to a generation ago, in the UK.

Its Daizy and Lily-Mae that have the bigger issue as it suggests a class with the spelling and hyphenation.

MummyPiggy, the thing is, I think that by the time Ocean, Ace, Chase and Wolfrick are in their late teens and early twenties that WTF thing will have gone. There is a whole generation of WTF coming through at a rate that hasn't happened before. If you look back in history there are news articles slating the improper names being used - the names that were to characterise that generation and we now think as boring as fuck. And this time there are loads more of the WTFs out there so there will be a saturation point at which even the generation before will get used to it. I can't see all WTFs being written off, merely because there are so many of them and there are so many kids who have some sort of foreign background reflected in their names.

The domination of Johns and Marys has increasingly been eroded. Hopefully in a couple of generations time the snobbery will be even less too.

And frankly, if you can't spell Ace, Chase or Ocean without having to ask then you shouldn't BE a High Court judge.

I was referring to the names I picked actually, not the names I mentioned. Clearly Ace isn't hard to spell..

Statistics tell us what the person wants us to believe based on the evidence they've used to base their statistics on. There are too many variables (as another poster said but much better than I). If enough people buy into the researchers point of view, it becomes accepted & this is shown in the amount of people who believe certain names will block their child from achieving in life.

Each to their own I say & the more we have cutesy, out-there an ridiculous name choices the better.