Sorcha... pronunciations?

[pinkytheshrinky]

I know that for the most part this name is pronounced Sor-kha but I met a nice older lady years ago who was a Sor-sha - I do really like this name and it is top of the list for my new dc. What do you think?

I do also have two other dds with Irish names who's spellings have been Anglicised so I do have form for this....

I actually think you are talking out your arse, pinky. People who have not come across it will look at it and not have a CLUE how to pronounce it not assume it is Sorsha because it doesn't phonetically decode in English as Sorcha. Many English people struggle with a relatively straightforward name like Caitriona (which is very close to anglicised versions).

You want to give your child a name that will be a total annoyance and nuisance to them because you "like" it (pronounced the way you pronounce it). I am pretty apolitical, I have very few nationalist tendencies, but it slightly grates to see your attitude here and how dismissive you are of people who find this sort of thing important. None of my father's family were "allowed" their Irish names (my uncle Oliamh had to be "Humphrey" on his birth cert) and your attitude to "hell, I can do what I like, it's only Irish" is a bit, well, rude.

Are you really saying your "irish dh" thinks it is Sorsha?

If you want it to be Scottish and the Scots version is Sorsha, fair enough BUT please, at least learn how to spell Gaelic so that your daughter can in her time and you don't make a total idiot out of her for your own amusement.

I've never came across it before and I assumed Sor-sha. I'm Scottish though, not Irish. Personally I think it's just a name and you should spell/pronounce it however you like. Names need to evolve or else we'd all be called the same thing!

We have a DD Sorcha (DH is Irish) and pronounce it Sor-sha. She has been called Sor-a-ka by the passport bloke at Dublin airport and that's fine too. Some of DH's relatives do think she's called Saoirse though...

But why? Why would you do it, I don't get it? Every friend I have who has an Irish spelling of their name in England (I know a few) finds it immensely irritating. It doesn't irritate their parents when their name is mispronounced but it's a different story when its your own name.

I am shocked that so many Irish people would just randomly choose Irish names they can't pronounce, I would expect that the least you would do when you are saddling someone with a name for life is have the respect to ensure you can say it yourself. But each to their own.

No I said my DH thinks the pronunciation is Scottish - and no the Scottish version is spelt the same Sorcha

I am not being dismissive - I just think as others have said, they do travel and the pronunciations change - why could it not be Scottish - several people have said this..

I can see you wont let the facts stand in the way of giving me a good kicking

Sorcha is Scottish spelt the same and said Sorsha - what is not to understand?

Ha! Eight pages on, and the Sorcha battle rages on.

I note there are at least three of us with (apparently ignorant) Irish DHs, who have DDs pronounced Sor-sha!

Yoko - I think you have the key when you mention the Scottish Gaelic - that explains why this pronunciation seems to be so widespread, and not confined to the "chavs" of this world.

As for Caitlin, every single Caitlin I have ever met in the UK is pronounced Kate-Lyn.

Since you think it's Scottish, you presumably won't be using it as you have no Scottish heritage to honour?

Scots Gaelic handy guide to pronunciation here, and no sign of any 'CH' rendered 'SH' as it turns out.

The mispronunciation is widespread because of the attitude that it is fine to take an Irish name and mangle it, which has been done through the entire history of use of the English language in Ireland.

The way Irish has adopted names and evolved (since you mention evolution of language) is to change the spellings and the pronunciation so you have names like Séamus/James, Seán/John, Searlas/Charles (older version and used to refer to Kings named Charles), Margaret/Mairghread->Maighréad->Mairéad. You don't find names adopted whole and mispronounced to suit the fact that the Irish language lacks certain sounds. If you're going to change the pronunciation, then change the spelling.

So Math, let me get this right: If I have no Scottish ancestors I cannot use a Scottish name?

Is that right? Is that the new rule now?

ffs - that is hilarious - Better get myself some Latin ones too...

and no - i will not change the spelling

My comment was flippant, as you were so adamant you were honouring your DD's Irish ancestry by choosing an Irish name and mispronouncing it. Since the name is allegedly Scottish now, you don't have that reason to insist on using it any more...

And 'Latin' ancestors?
Who are the Latins?

No No i have stared I did not chose the name because it was Irish - my other dd's have no Irish ancestors (because they have a different Father) and they have Irish names. I chose the names because I love them. It so happens that my DH now is actually Irish, one of our sons has an Irish middle name, chosen because we liked it and because the name was that of a mythical figure. One of my other sons has the surname of a Napoleonic General as a middle name because he was a bit specctacular too.

Exactly re. the Latin names - my son's have Latin names - it was meant to be funny as there is no such thing.

This has not been about honouring any kind of heritage - I happen to have Irish family through marriage, my Dh is first generation born over here. His Father is a Gaelic speaker from Connnemara and his Mother was from Donnegal.

I cannot remember the bit where I was adamant about honouring anything - that is your incorrect interpretation - I like the name - I like the person I knew who had this name.

If I had any family to honour I would go for Kathleen or Bridget or Eileen with the leg.....

It sounds like one of those names where a variant gaining acceptance with a more British phonetic pronounciation. A bit like Caitlin, which in the UK and USA is pronounced "Kate-lyn" and has become a name in it's own right. Names, like the rest of the language, change and are influenced by our increasing international connections. Obviously not everyone needs to like (or accept) it, but it's probably not going to bring about the downfall of civilisation as we know it.

Oh shite, I was hoping to bring about the downfall of civilisation as we know it...

Still a great name

sorry to dissapoint -you'll have to settle for irational irritation (not from me - I have no idea how to pronounce it!)!

Perhaps I should stick with Eileen with the leg.... it is growing on me and certainly an 'genuinely authentic' Irish name (in dh's family anyway)

And honestly I am not in the business of making anyone like or accept it - I was interested to know what pronunciations people knew and it has turned into a bun fight really.

I like it, it is short and elegant and will grow from a child to a woman (which to me is very important as not a fan of little girl names). I am far too old to get into all that old cock about making people agree with me - waste of time as far as I am concerned as there will always be detractors.

No Dh's dad is a deaf as a post and doesn't give a monkeys to be honest. He couldn't care less what we call our children, he loves them. He is not that fond of Ireland, he doesn't have an Irish name nor do any of his children and after leaving he has never returned as he was treated very badly there as an orphan. The rest of the family actually hardly have a trad name between them - nor do the ones in the USA (as I am sure we cannot class Kathleen etc as trad)

I have had the Orla is Anglicised conversation too - apparently it is just more 'modern' and ok.... according to the people who know on here.

Well if you're going with Eileen, I hope you'll be spelling it Eibhlín and not that anglicised version

What is Irish for 'with the leg' and if it has a nice ring to it i might give it a whirl!

sor-ra, sor-ka, sorika am I warm yet?