The mushroom poisoning in Vic.... I am gripped - Part 2

[ImustLearn2Cook]

Hi everyone, Aussie Mumsnetter here. As some have requested a new thread be started by an Aussie I decided to do it.

I am still gripped by this case and like many, I am awaiting updates of new information.

Will a matching donor for a liver for Ian be found soon? I hope he makes a full recovery.

Will he be able to shed new light on the lunch they all shared?

And of course is she guilty of deliberately poisoning them or was it an innocent mistake?

When were the Facebook posts about dehydrating mushrooms for her kids?
She must have dehydrated the DC ones quite soon after she bought it so I find it extraordinarily reckless that she then used it for the brownie mushrooms after it had been contaminated

I want to invite mycologist Dr Tom May over for dinner to inspect the reserve out the back and ask him many, many questions! Right now should be shroom season but we've had so little rain. We often get some truly spectacular ones but ATM there's nothing.

I asked AI about touching them.

No, it is not dangerous to simply touch a death cap mushroom. The mushroom's toxicity lies in its toxins, which are ingested, not absorbed through the skin. It is recommended to wear gloves when handling death cap mushrooms, but the primary risk is from consuming them.

Yes just touching them would be probably be ok. Though Google says there are some toxic mushrooms where even touching them is not ok. The reason I mentioned it in relation to children earlier is that they are known for touching things then touching their mouths, eyes etc! We were also warned about foxgloves!

What I've seen reported is March onwards - but she didn't purchase the dehydrator until 28th April. So either her posts were part of a long con, or they have gotten confused re the exact timing.

March to May
Erin allegedly starts posting about dehydrating mushrooms in a true crime Facebook group, detailing how she put powdered mushrooms into different foods.

The key people, timeline and evidence in Erin Patterson's mushroom murder trial - ABC News

You do a disservice to yourself with such assumptions. I am a criminal lawyer who works in this space daily, and my opinion is entirely consistent with other criminal defence lawyers following the case. I think it would be more respectful of you to simply accept that other people can come to other perspectives that you.

Of course at the end of the case I may change my mind, when all evidence is concluded. I don't believe in stridently coming to a decision on a case when you're not there and you haven't heard all the evidence.

But just because my (and other commenters) position is different to yours, being patronising and personal in response to a case that you have no personal stake in is very strange.

Ah ok so I reckon she had another one or used the oven on low or something

I might equally ask you to mind your lecturing tone.

I wasn't speaking about you personally, just an observation from this and the previous thread.

Just squint and ignore my posts, please.

@Yazzi I appreciate your contribution here, you've answered some questions that us laypeople cannot. Murder V Manslaughter for example.

I agree that your opinion as a criminal defence lawyer is consistent with other similar professionals following the case. I mentioned my uncle defence barrister upthread- wont name him because he has notorious clients and is good at losing jury trials.

I don't believe anyone here is doing themselves a disservice by recounting the already known evidence.

No person on this thread has a personal stake in the outcome.

No I absolutely agree with you that noone is doing themselves a disservice by simply recounting the evidence, nor by offering an opinion of what that means for the case whichever way they think it's leaning :)

I like having a discussion with people of a different opinion, it makes you consider things differently, or think about what assumptions are going into how much weight you give certain evidence.

As I said at the start, it's a really interesting case from the facts of it!

@velvetandsatin Sorry everyone else, Velvet am trying to PM you some silly pics 🌸can you PM me instead?

My apologies, as you were.

Is signal app really popular in Australia? I hadn't heard of it before this trial.

So, today:

1. expert testifies NO death caps in the leftovers ;
2. she took the dehydrator to the tip. To the e-waste bin.

So the portion intended for Simon didn’t have death caps in it…? Seems that way…? Or was it a part of her meal? Important to know. Crucial, in fact.

Can’t believe that in rural Australia there isn’t a less observable way to dispose of a dehydrator if you’ve used it as a murder weapon - like having a bonfire, chucking it into a river, the sea, or burying it in a remote area where there aren’t a bunch of security cameras recording you? It just makes no sense. But then maybe she did plan it - just really, really badly?

Curiouser and curiouser.

By the way, my scepticism isn’t because she is a woman and a mummy. It’s because I know that people under stress and at certain times of their life can behave in really bizarre and unpredictable ways… and conversely, that people are not always as nice as they might seem. And we are talking about sending someone down for a life sentence here, if not even longer. It is imperative that there is no reasonable doubt. So difficult where the mental state is the sole differentiating factor.

And, of course, depriving her children of a mother.

'and conversely, that people are not always as nice as they might seem.' Are you talking about someone specifically here? @ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly

The entire family/community, I guess. I have no info at all and as far as I know, nothing has been mentioned in this context, but I am simply making the point: there is talk of there being no motive, but we have no idea what went on behind closed doors in terms of the relationship between Erin and the people around her. Not that it would excuse anything deliberate, if that were shown to be the case. But it might be a piece of the jigsaw. It seems to be me that the public may never know.

I’m guessing contaminated leftovers might have been disposed of elsewhere? Otherwise why get rid of the dehydrator? Maybe the leftovers in the bin were the ones she/ the children had had.

Maybe no one was supposed to be well enough to let people know where they’d been together/ about coloured plates etc. You don’t get ill instantly (6-24hrs), which would make it harder to work out what’s wrong quickly I imagine. Although Simon pulling out would have affected that. And phone records would eventually have helped.

All just ponderings, it’s very confusing. And yes, as with many cases, we may never know the truth.

I think when she went home from the hospital before returning - in the time period she told Simon she 'lay on the floor for 45 minutes' and had a nap - she would have disposed of the actual poisoned leftovers and cleaned up more and put the unpoisoned leftovers, nicely wrapped, in the bottom of the red bin.

Monday July 31
Doctors at Leongatha and Dandenong Hospital confer about the poisonings. Don, Gail, Heather and Ian are transferred to the Austin Hospital in Melbourne.

Erin drops her children to school, then texts Simon and asks him to take her to hospital, but he tells her to get there herself.

Erin presents to Leongatha Hospital around 8am, but allegedly declines a full examination and checks herself out. Erin returns to the hospital around 9:48am.

She is transferred to Monash Medical Centre, and meets Simon and her children there.

She could alternatively have dumped the poisoned BW intended for Simon in her original plan in the sanitary bin in the ladies toilet when she made that stop at the servo on the way to her son' flying lesson on the day after the lunch - where the ctv showed she remained only 9 seconds (so it wasn't a toilet stop for diarrhea, none of which she made on that hours' long journey there and back).

But the hydrator was a quite recent and expensive purchase and also large so she held onto it. The only bit of her story that I believe regarding actions taken because she 'panicked' began now with the disposing of her dehydrator at the tip, and the resetting of one of her phones.

Wednesday August 2
Erin allegedly conducts a factory reset on Phone B, which she had been using before February 12.

She allegedly drives to Koonwarra Transfer Station and Landfill, and deposits items into an e-waste bin.

Unless the Simon's portion and any DC leftovers went down the loo before the police turned up - perhaps this is why she was so desperate to leave hospital and return later ... so she could "tidy up" at home

PS: Hot tip, I didn't have anyone in mind who is currently posting on this thread when I made that comment. But in this post you do seem to be demonstrating some of what I was talking about by saying this:

By the way, my scepticism isn’t because she is a woman and a mummy. It’s because I know that people under stress and at certain times of their life can behave in really bizarre and unpredictable ways… and conversely, that people are not always as nice as they might seem. And we are talking about sending someone down for a life sentence here, if not even longer. It is imperative that there is no reasonable doubt.

We, here, are not sending anyone down, we are just discussing the case.

What I would put to you and others who feel the same, though, is would you be looking for extenuating circumstances if a man had allegedly murdered his extended family in one of the cruelest ways possible? Would you be saying, well, perhaps they were not always perfectly nice people? Or perhaps his wife was lazy with the housework?

So there was taxes of death cap mushrooms in the beef wellington and meat.

You need quite a lot of mushroom to kill 4-5 adults. I can’t see how 1 person could end up without exposure from a common mushroom paste. It just doesn’t work like that.

Erm, of course I know we are not sending anyone down here. I’m not daft.

Interesting!
someone please make it make sense!

I’ve never had beef wellington. I assume it would be more normal to serve a large communal one? Because if so, the individual ones alone are highly suspicious.

sorry edit to add: IF so

It seems that two batches must have been made…

And I agree that individual wellingtons is odd, as when I search for recipes they are all for a large wellington to be shared.

interesting re the 9 second service station stop! Yes not really enough time to use the toilet!