So, the Voice

[Ozgirl75]

I’m trying to follow it from the U.K. where I’m living this year and it seems massively political and divisive, is that what it’s like over there or is that just being started by the media?

@Ozgirl75

Have you seen these resources.

https://www.yes23.com.au/

Shelley Reyes - Facts from Fiction

Thank you for the links. I will read them later when I have some time.

Why do we need a Voice

Over decades, dozens of Indigenous representative groups have been established and then removed or defunded by changing Governments and bureaucratic agendas. Putting the Voice in the Constitution protects it from politics, giving it the time, security, and independence that it needs to provide meaningful and honest advice. Indigenous culture and tradition has existed on this land for 65,000 years, this will be the very first time that it is recognised and respected in Australia’s 122-year-old constitution.

Basically the Voice is needed to protect First Nations Australians from Peter Dutton and his merry band of white, male protectionist cronies. This land needs it.

65000 years of culture gone in 122. The numbers don't lie.

I fall into the not interested aka got more important things to worry about in my life

I care about the cost of living, interest rates, how im paying xyz bill next week or making sure we have dinner every night leading into payday, if any of the job applications i put in will go anywhere

There also the side of me that firmly believes the government has made their choice on what side wins
The ad, the debates, the vote is all just a big song and dance, a placebo to make aussies think they getting a say

That's the spirit. All about you.

How can you not possibly care that one of the oldest living cultures on earth has been decimated?

It is possible to care about more than numero uno, you know?

There also the side of me that firmly believes the government has made their choice on what side wins
The ad, the debates, the vote is all just a big song and dance, a placebo to make aussies think they getting a say

@Ineedcoffee2021

We are going to a referendum, we have to go and vote or we will be fined if we don’t. So you need to think about it.

It takes a referendum to change the constitution - the govt can’t choose ‘which side wins.’

There are First Nations Children as young as ten going to prison. Your child could go to prison at that age too, but they just don’t put white kids in prison at 10 years of age. (At least they don’t put 10 year old kids of other racial backgrounds in prison at the moment, but legally a 10 year old of any race can go to prison in Australia). So you have privilege. Even if you’re poor and struggling to pay the bills. You don’t have to go to sleep at night worrying about if your child gets into trouble he enters system that will punish him more than it punishes white kids. This is something the Voice could change because although they will have no legislative powers it will be consulted on this and many other issues. Previous attempts to ‘Raise The Age’ have failed, but the Voice could make all the difference.

Instead of our government wasting money on programs they institute without consulting the people the programs are supposed to help, the programs will be targeted. It will likely cost us less in the the long run. There will be no wasted money going to big consulting and contracting firms taking their profits first.

I know it’s tough financially for many at the moment. I’ve been there - not been able to pay bills, struggling with young children, however this is a chance to make a difference for other people, a chance that will cost us nothing. A chance to bring other people up to your level of living standards. You won’t lose a thing. And you’ll get to feel better about yourself. And you create a kinder and fairer society. It won’t change your situation at the moment, but you can change the situation for someone else. And you will have found your voice.

You should be angry that you can’t find work and cost of living has inflated. But being angry about one thing, should not negate another thing. Hold your government accountable at the next election. But until then, vote yes in the referendum that is going to make some other peoples lives better. Very many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples currently have a living standard so bad that it has been noted by economists that they are living at the Great Depression levels of living standards. Look at any little child and ask yourself if they deserve something better than that.

Voting yes for the Voice will cost you nothing, and if the Voice is a success, it may save taxpayer money by supporting better government decisions.

I'm in NSW and think it will comfortably pass here. I do think that it will lose on the "majority of voters in the whole country " due to QLD, WA and all the ones from other states where it just passed ( NSW, VIC, TAS , SA)

Fingers crossed for Victoria living up to our reputation as the most progressive state.

Interesting. My feeling is the opposite. I think we will have a majority of voters voting yes, but if it fails it will be because it won't get the majority of states.

Agree, I really think it will struggle with a majority of states, not least because of the outright lies from outlets like Sky. It is terrible for our democracy that they can mislead voters without consequences, and seem to be doing so just for shits and giggles, because the Voice is so harmless.

The divisions among the First Nations people themselves - which is getting quite a bit of air time on the news - isn't helping things. Australia is going to look so bad if this referendum fails.

I understand that there is over 80% support amongst surveyed Aboriginal voters. That seems pretty good to me.

While there is a prominent conservative NT politician who gets a lot of airtime, I don’t believe her views are widely shared, and of course she represents her constituents and her party rather than all Aboriginal voters.

@MiniBossFromAus You are looking for an excuse to vote no because you know that an outright no vote is wrong and shows you up for what you are. A racist

That’s really objectionable and unfair. I have spent a lot of time over the years in various indigenous communities and genuinely want what is best for ALL of them, to move forward. I’m not a racist. How much on the ground assistance have you provided?

I’m also well qualified in statistical analysis for those who claim I can’t read a can of beans and listen to any man, cat and dog. I’ve done a lot of work on statistical analysis with healthcare of indigenous and also a sidetrack into the justice arena at one point. Statistics can say anything if people don’t understand them. 80%. What is that? It’s a gimmick for those that don’t understand statistics. When dealing with such populations, to be meaningful, you need to base it on rates. Obviously you have more indigenous in NSW, there are three times as many in NSW as compared with the NT. However, the NT has the highest rate within population. Again, the straight numbers show that you have a bulk living in metro areas, a similar bulk in regional and a minority remote, however the rates/proportion within population does not align.

As it stands, the NT, the area in Australia with the highest proportion of indigenous within the population, doesn’t have a Voice in this referendum. Legislation for referendums states that because it is a Territory and not a State majority numbers are not required. Where numbers are required, via legislated rules for referendums to pass, it’s based on numbers and not proportions/rates. So, a whole lot of white people in NSW and Vic have a meaningful say, whereas the Indigenous in the NT do not - on something that affects the indigenous population. You think that is right? That’s what is being pointed out. The most important votes here should be coming from the NT and WA as that’s where rates of indigenous are highest, but that’s not the case. Supposedly I’m not allowed to be unhappy about that? It makes me racist? No, I don’t believe my voice should be greater than those in the NT and I don’t believe it should be up to me to essentially vote on their behalf. Acquaint yourself with the rules for vote deciding with referendums. Maybe start with that making sure that those living in both Territories have an equal Voice!

There is also the issue that many Indigenous groups are pointing out there is great diversity. The challenges and needs of those in regional and remote are different to those on metro areas. Yet, on straight numbers metro and large regional is larger, even though the rate/proportion in outer regional and remote is far greater. They are worried, that because people can be tricky with ‘simplistic’ numbers such as the 80%, they won’t benefit as their representation with the Voice will be coming from a majority with different experiences and needs. They want this aspect sorted prior rather than something foisted on them later when it’s too late for them to ‘have a seat at the table and be heard’ and I don’t blame them. I’ve worked with indigenous groups in metro and remote areas and it’s chalk and cheese. Both populations have many issues but they are very different issues.

I don’t think anyone objects to the Voice, it’s getting these aspects sorted which realistically would take another year or so and with this sort of detail covered and agreed across all groups, that’s what people are saying. But no, in your simplistic view ‘racist’. By the way I’m not a Lib or Labour voter. Or greens. Can’t stand the lot of them these days and generally Teal just in case your next war cry is to accuse me of being Dutton’s aunt or something.

But how will a No vote possibly serve the NT communities?

As for “the detail”, the proposed Constitutional change is beautifully simple (and appropriate for the Constitution). The Parliament of the day gets to adjust the detail as they see fit. That will include NT reps and senators.

@HoppingPavlova

Voting Teal is not relevant to this discussion. It's easy to say - oh look how liberal I am.... I vote xyz. When you don't actually follow that up with action (in this case supporting a change to our constitution which has maligned a single ethnic group), then you should not be surprised when people add 1 + 1 and get 2.

Ultimately you are passing the responsibility of your choice back to the very group of people who need you to take a stand.

Have a look at Malarndirri MacCarthy speak about the Voice. She is a First Nations Senator representing the NT.

I believe there is a race consideration in your decision making framework on this. You are making the blak fella responsible for your choice by having to unequivocally "prove" to you (you just arent that important in the grand scheme of this debate) with statistics that they ALL want change. Without that "proof" you say you withhold support for a constitutional change that WILL spark meaningful reform. Surely you can see there is an undertone of control/threat/careful there in your approach.

I find it distasteful and am calling you on it. It's time we all start to challenge the systemic racism that plagues this beautiful place, challenge our political landscape, challenge the narrative, challenge the children in youth detention and start to embrace the TRUE culture of this land and it's First Nations peoples.

I am tired of the - they get what they deserve rhetoric. It really is the time to do the right thing.

Personally I think there’s a good argument that racists very much should vote for the Voice. They’ve been very happy to say, oh they’re drunks, child abusers, glue sniffers who won’t get off their arse and fix things and then when Indigenous people say “how about you do this thing so that we actually can?” they’re like “oh no because you’re going to take over”. What, this so called bunch of drunks and glue sniffers??
If racists think that Indigenous Aussies are such low life losers then give them the Voice and you can prove to yourself and your racist chums that “hey we did everything and they’re still beating their wives” whereas if they don’t get the Voice people will blame the racists.

I know it’s an odd take, but I actually think if I was a racist and truly believed that IA’s couldn’t help themselves, then this would be a good way to prove it.

And if they do pull themselves up? Then that’s a win for the whole country.

The Squizz Shortcuts, is doing a weekly podcast in regard to The Voice that is going to focus on answering questions people may have. Started today. Today it’s the YES and No sides of the debate.

It’s short and weekly. (Last year they did similar in the lead up to the Federal election). The Squizz answering questions you may have in regard to The Voice,

However, she does not speak for Aboriginal people across the country.

Neither does any one individual person who offers an opinion.

All the successful individuals claiming a “Voice” to parliament and Treaty are going to provide these opportunities for our marginalised are completely disregarding the needs of our marginalised and seek to create opportunity to further their own success.

Actually I don’t agree with this.

To say that’s people such as Prof Marcia Langton, Meghan Davis and Noel Pearson are seeking to further their own success is unfair. They’ve been devoted to this cause. And worked towards it most of their lives.

They don’t disregard the marginalised. They’ve lived the life of the marginalised. Langton lived in a camp for part of her childhood, Pearson was brought up on a mission in the Far North Cape York Peninsula.

The No Vote group will just lead to more of the same old same old - they aren’t offering an alternative solution.

Of course you are right. But why this particular opinion, rather than Linda Burney’s, for example? Because it plays into the Murdoch-touted world view that individuals have to haul themselves up by their bootstraps while only massively wealthy corporations are entitled to government assistance.

I don't agree with that viewpoint. There have been huge injustices that have caused situations that do need addressing. The debate if whether The Voice is the best way to do that. I personally feel that the information I am encountering tends to be biased towards a 'yes' vote. I'm seeing little from the 'no' camp. I would like to see information from both sides. I am actually uncomfortable, as a white person, voting on this. I care very much about the issues affecting indigenous people and past injustices, and want the outcome that lends itself best to justice to prevail.