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Greater than 1 in 2 chance of t21/downs syndrome - experience

49 replies

1in2blues · 02/07/2023 20:07

Just thought I'd write this up here so the information can be found if anyone else needs it really. I didn't find too much info on our exact situation but a few threads on here did help us while we were going through things, so hopefully they'll come up when people google similar things in future.

My wife is 13 weeks pregnant, and we got our combined test results back last week for chromosomal issues. Terrifyingly, this came back with a ">1 in 2 chance" of t21 (Down's Syndrome). She'd already had one miscarriage last year, so this was pretty upsetting.

We'd decided that we wouldn't want to continue with the pregnancy if it was confirmed, which made the whole thing very stressful considering we'd told everyone a few days before and were still getting congratulations through.

We immediately went to the hospital to talk with one of the consultants, and she went through all the options (NIPT blood test, which would give another more accurate percentage result, or a CVS or amnio test, which would be conclusive, but risk 1% chance of miscarriage after the invasive test). We decided that due to the high probability, we'd go for the CVS and that was booked in (we'd have to wait a few weeks for the amnio, which was too long).

The next few days were spent with frantic research and stress, while I regretted not asking the nurse for the numbers from my wife's exact blood results so I could check which numbers had led to the result.

Chances of Down's Syndrome, Edward's, and Patau's Syndrome are calculated using a formula, based on the mother's age, her blood results, and the size of the translucent fluid behind the baby's neck at the 12 week ultrasound.

Our baby's NT neck measurement was 3.2mm (which is high, the healthy average is just over 1mm iirc). The baby was wriggling around and there was a range of results from 2.8mm up to 3.6mm, but 3.2mm was the official one they used.

The blood results are judged in terms of "MoM" (multiples of median), with 1 being average.
My wife's PAPP-A was 0.75 (low), and her HCG was a rather scary 4.93 (almost 5 times average - which explained her intense morning sickness!)

Low papp-a and high HCG, along with a large NT size heavily indicated Down's Syndrome, hence the >1 in 2 result. (If NCT is low, that indicates one of the other two chromosomal conditions.)
Annoyingly, it was never made clear whether ">1 in 2" meant closer to 50% chance, or closer to 100%. The consultant we saw first said that this chance meant that if there were 2 babies, 1 would have DS. But a doctor at the CVS scan told is that ">1 in 2" does mean "1 in 1".

The CVS scan experience was fine (my wife found the jabs a bit painful), and there was a detailed anatomy ultrasound before the procedure, with full heart examination using 3d doppler imagery. The doctor didn't find any abnormalities, and there were no heart problems. The nasal bone was visible on the scan, but the doctor found it hard to get a proper view because the baby was moving too much (an absent nasal bone at 12-13 weeks is also a potential symptom of DS). She said that they don't re-measure the NT size, and just stick with the previous official measurement. I assumed this was because it does tend to change over time, and they don't want to give too much unfair hope or despair to parents struggling with the situation.

The CVS test was on Wednesday afternoon, and we had to wait stressing until Friday afternoon for a phonecall with the results. I spent these days trawling through medical journal articles checking the real probabilities of these things, and how accurate they are. There is apparently a "5% false positive rate" for the combined test -- but I'm still not entirely sure how you can have a false positive on a test which only ever gives a statistical likelihood as a results.

As far as I can tell, 3.5mm is the size at which the NT measurement becomes worrying, and 0.75 isn't TOO low a PAPP-A number. So it was the very high HCG which was pushing up the result to a 1 in 2 chance. I actually found an online cloud version of similar calculation software (https://www.prenatalscreeningcloud.com/) which I used to play with the numbers a little to see how they changed the result to see how the weightings worked.

I kept swapping between having hope after no abnormalities were found at the scan, and it potentially being due to one high HCG number skewing the result -- and the doctor telling me that it was basically a 1:1 chance.

Was she saying that because it was actually certain and ">1 in 2" means 95%? Or did she maybe misunderstand my question? Why would they say "more than 1 in 2" if the chance was actually certain to be much higher? Did the doctor tell us she wasn't re-measuring the NT because it looked smaller and she didn't want to give us hope? Or do they really never measure it? Why hadn't they mentioned anything about 3.2mm being high at the first ultrasound? Maybe it wasn't really high at all? But they did seem a little quiet. (And on and on and on ... )

(Side-note: we only had my wife's blood numbers from the printed form we got after the CVS test. Only, it actually said her HCG was 4093 times the average. Which is clearly wrong. Either this was a typo, or they'd mis-typed the actual result the first time and that had led to her very high results from the software. I decided that it was probably supposed to be 4.93 (the decimal on the numpad is right next to the 0), and the nurse had just re-typed it out wrong on the CVS paperwork. I actually checked the official government guidelines for the software they use, and there are upper limits in place for all values. But we haven't got the full blood results back yet, so it might be that my wife is a medical marvel!)

We finally got the phonecall of the CVS when we were out, trying to keep busy (and my wife forgot her phone!) so we rang them back when we got in, and got the preliminary CVS results, which was an all clear.

No signs of Down's, Edwards's or Patau's.

Needless to say, we spent the rest of the week on an emotional high like I've never felt. It's been 4 days now since the CVS test, and so most of the 0.5-1% miscarriage risk has also passed.

As I say, I've basically written this here for posterity, in case anyone else is really struggling with their combined test results as we were, as I couldn't find many examples of super high probabilities. I know from experience that it's not much reassurance reading people worrying over 1 in 150 results while you're facing a >1 in 2.

Prenatal Screening Cloud Software

Low cost prenatal screening software targered to small labs and doctors. Screening types: First trimester screening, Second Trimester Screening and Preeclampsia screening

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OP posts:
BendingSpoons · 02/07/2023 20:22

What a helpful post. I haven't been in your situation but if I ever am, I would find your explanation really helpful, so I'm sure others will. I hope all goes well for you.

HaPPy8 · 02/07/2023 20:26

Agree this is really kind of you to share thank you. I also wish your family well ☺️

ScarlettDarling · 02/07/2023 20:45

I’m so pleased that you have been given such good news after such a worrying time. Wishing you and your family all the very best.

Sunnysausage · 02/07/2023 21:26

I always pop up on these threads to recommend this helpline who were an absolute godsend when we went through an ante-natal testing nightmare:
https://www.arc-uk.org/
I know they have helped other families on here as well.
Glad it worked out for you in the end but it must have been quite a traumatic process.

Antenatal Results and Choices (ARC) | Support for Parents and Professionals

We provide non-directive information and support before, during and after antenatal screening. Plus training and advice for medical professionals

https://www.arc-uk.org/

RubyMae1804 · 14/07/2023 00:06

Thank you for posting really informative! I am currently waiting for my NIPT test to come back which I had done yesterday then I will be able to breathe and relax! Very tense time waiting

SirVixofVixHall · 14/07/2023 00:16

So kind of you to post, to help other parents facing this. I had a much lower but still scary at the time figure, (1 in 16O). I decided not to have any further testing, as in our case we would have gone ahead with the pregnancy, my daughter does not have any issues. I second the pps comment on ARC, they are really helpful . It is such a stressful time waiting for results. I am very pleased for you OP that your results are fine.

Firstreturn · 14/07/2023 10:47

Very kind of you to share all this info, I’m sure it will help others a lot. Thank you.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 14/07/2023 10:51

My eldest is 17 and testing wasn’t quite the same when I was pregnant but I had an amnio in my first pregnancy and remember only too well the horrible feeling of waiting for the results. Hope the rest of the pregnancy is uneventful

FairyPixie1983 · 01/08/2023 21:58

I'm 39 nearly 13 weeks pregnant and my midwife called today to say my combined test had came back 1 in 3 for downs and 1 in 38 Edwards
I have cried and cried since putting the phone down as awful as it sounds I can't have a ds child
I have a cousin who is 50 with downs and he has severe disabilities and I know how hard it is and as selfish as it sounds I can't do it
I was offered the nipt test for tomorrow morning but I don't think that will be enough to put my mind at rest so have opted for cvs should hear in next couple of days
Speaking to midwife she's just told me that most people with same score as me 1 in 3 turned out to be affected with the condition so I'm preparing myself that I won't get to have my baby and it's breaking my heart

User69611 · 02/08/2023 20:15

Hi @FairyPixie1983 . I am so sorry to hear this. I had the same experience a few weeks ago (risk was 1 in 2) and sadly found out my baby had DS after the CVS. I had a termination (very hard decision but the right one for us). It was such an awful few weeks with so many tears and the waiting for the results was the worst thing. Just to say I am thinking of you and have support around you. Take care x

FairyPixie1983 · 02/08/2023 22:28

Thank you I appreciate your reply
My midwife said most people with this result turn out to be affected
In my head I feel like I've separated myself from this baby,deleted all the baby apps cos I can't bare to see how the baby's growing anymore cos I know if it's positive I will terminate too
I sat looking at my 12 week scan pics in tears last night
I know im 39 and was higher chance but i look and think many women i know my age and older have had healthy babies and it just seems so unfair
I have my cvs tomorrow morning but I think mentally I'm preparing myself for the worst 😔 Xx

cestlavielife · 02/08/2023 22:33

ask them to run a full screen from the cvs for other syndromes micro deletions and duplications

User69611 · 03/08/2023 09:05

So sorry you are going through this. I did the same - dissociated from the pregnancy a bit in that same way, my partner couldn't look at the scan pics (and still hasn't) but they are important to have in the future to process the loss. Good luck with the CVS today, I had my results in 2 working days after the procedure. I also asked to see the paper report and just to let you know that identifies the baby's sex which can make things feel more real. Really hoping you have a miracle but good to mentally prep for the worst case scenario x

RubyMae1804 · 03/08/2023 12:31

FairyPixie1983 · 02/08/2023 22:28

Thank you I appreciate your reply
My midwife said most people with this result turn out to be affected
In my head I feel like I've separated myself from this baby,deleted all the baby apps cos I can't bare to see how the baby's growing anymore cos I know if it's positive I will terminate too
I sat looking at my 12 week scan pics in tears last night
I know im 39 and was higher chance but i look and think many women i know my age and older have had healthy babies and it just seems so unfair
I have my cvs tomorrow morning but I think mentally I'm preparing myself for the worst 😔 Xx

I’m also in the same boat as you I’m 39 and my NIPT came back high risk for T21 😢 I’ve had the Amnio done this week, I’m 16 weeks and currently waiting On results! I feel like I am in a living nightmare it’s the not knowing and the Unknown been the worst 3 weeks of my life since finding out I was high risk!
The test is not too bad, no pain as such just uncomfortable more than anything, I didn’t look and I was fine afterwards just rested for a day.
Hope your tests go ok and results come back fine too x

FairyPixie1983 · 03/08/2023 14:33

@RubyMae1804 I went this morning and they couldn't do the cvs due to where placenta was 😔 I am rebooked for in another weeks time.
Its the worst feeling ever and the waiting doesn't help .
What was your combined screening? I haven't went for the nipt but now I'm thinking should I have just had that done cos now I'm just waiting
I pray both of us get good results and that our baby's are healthy xx

FairyPixie1983 · 09/08/2023 23:17

@RubyMae1804 did you get the results of your amnio back? Xx

Holiday0609 · 18/10/2023 21:37

@1in2blues, I just want to say thank you for your very detailed experience story because it has really given me hope. I’m going through your exact story right now and terrified! Had 12 week scan and bloods to be told high risk with 1/2 risk of downs. Totally turned my world upside down. I’m having the nipt tomorrow to see what difference that makes and then cvs in a couple of weeks. The numbers are so confusing and I’m not sure how confident I should be with the result. I have read 1/2 as a definite number which is scary. My Papp was 0.14 and hcg 3.29 and I’m 38 years old. The nt measured 1.5mm. I really hope and pray for good news but thank you for sharing. It just shows how wrong things can be. Congratulations to you and your wife and I’m glad you got your happy ending after all you have gone through. X

Shakyknees86 · 21/10/2023 14:02

@Holiday0609

Really sorry you're going through this. I'm going through something similar and have been on multiple forums to understand the situation better and knowing I'm not alone (although I wished it didn't have to happen to anyone) helps with the loneliness.

My papp-a was 0.51mom, hcg 4.16mom and nt 1.6mm at 12+6weeks scan. My age (37) and high hcg gave a odds of 1:45.

I was booked in for a cvs yesterday and experienced some mild cramping here and there afterwards and today feel much better although a little tender. The whole process wasn't painful, found the local anaesthetic more painful than the cvs, however when they took the sample out it was really uncomfortable. My husband couldn't look and felt unwell afterwards lol. What was nice was before the cvs, the consultant does a scan to check on the baby and I got to see baby's heartbeat. The consultant also said baby's heart looked normal, nasal bone present and everything looked "normal" however, the only way to be sure is to do cvs.

We'll hear from them within 3-5 workings days and the wait is killing me. I'm trying to not think about it too much about it but its been difficult.

Fingers crossed for all of us.

Shakyknees86 · 24/10/2023 15:44

Just an update in case anybody else going through something similar. We got the all clear for downs (what we were high risk for) Edwards and Pataus.

We're just so happy and feel much more comfortable knowing our baby is going to be ok.

Good luck to all of you!

Holiday0609 · 25/10/2023 10:46

That is absolutely brilliant and what a relief for you. The wait of the unknown is awful and people say try not to worry but it’s almost impossible. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy now and again, congratulations.
I have cvs booked for 6th November so I really hope and pray for good news too. Take care 🥰

LucyBaby2 · 20/11/2023 18:40

First time posting and I don't really know what to say. We had our 12 week scan Saturday and they found the NT to measure 7.6mm so I had blood work immediately after and we have just had the results as 1in2 for all 3 syndromes. I am 34 years old and this is my second baby.
I initially wanted to go down the non invasive route but with the results being so high I have agreed to CVS, now I'm just waiting to get an appointment.
I've been trying to research and internalise as much information as possible but I'm finding it difficult so this post is really helpful and I think that's why I joined up and commented, to say thank you.

Shakyknees86 · 20/11/2023 22:06

@LucyBaby2

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Hopefully the cvs comes back all clear 🙏

Shakyknees86 · 20/11/2023 22:09

@Holiday0609

Thank you ❤️

It's true. It was so hard to stay positive but this forum really helped.

How did your appointment go if you don't mind me asking? Hope you're doing well.

Holiday0609 · 21/11/2023 07:30

so I went on to have the nipt done and that came back low chance. I went to my amnio appointment and the lady I saw was a fetal medicine consultant. Very old school and experienced. She basically said I have nothing to worry about. My combined screening was high risk because my Papp a was very low at 0.16 and my hcg high. My fluid measurement was 1.5 so perfect. She said the nipt was the most reliable because it doesn’t take any considerations from the mother so it’s completely independent to the combined. She said she was happy to still do the amino as it’s straight forward but I would not get any different results. She kind of put it that there is a higher risk of miscarriage after than the nipt being wrong. She did fill me with so much confidence so I declined the amnio. Xxx

HannahPom5 · 28/02/2024 15:03

Hello everyone,

I've been reading through this (and many other) forums as yesterday I was told I have a 1 in 29 chance of downs syndrome.

@Holiday0609 thank you for sharing your journey. I have very similar results to you (NT 1.6mm, HCG 3.8 and PAPP A 0.3).
It's been really helpful and interesting to hear what the consultant said to you.
I'm so happy to hear things are going well.

Thanks to everyone else who posts and offers so much insight and support.

Hannah