To think the professional world is full of middle aged men of very average abilities who still seem to have gone far

150% (which is the sort of BS response you get from men like that). Every male manager I've had has been a middle aged, working class, proud i didn't go to Uni type (secretly feeling a bit inadequate) who frequently says "in my experience" not seeming to recognise how limited their own experience is particularly when there is data, research, books that can be drawn on for things. Keep their people beneath them and lick their own bosses bums.
One female leader I had was an absolute breath of fresh air, championing and promoting her people, listening, nurturing.

Yes. So many mediocre men in senior positions who are not very competent.

I always imagine those men when MNers talk about their DH with his 'big job'. (The ones who will also say, "Well I asked my DH and he said....")

For sure, but I think part of it is only men are prepared to do these shitty corporate jobs that steal a little piece of your soul every day

On paper looked incredible and he sold himself as an amazing professional who had led teams, won business etc etc. When it came down to the crunch...

Tale as old as time. I've lost count of the 'good on paper' senior men I've met who don't know their arse from their elbow.

I'd assumed you were talking about politicians..

YANBU. this is exactly what it's like un my industry as well. Worse are the ones with a modicum of talent that really screw things up. They also tend to be made of teflon so nothing is ever their fault and never bites them.

In my experience, yes too.

Yes. NHS Corporate is full of them.

Absolutely winds me up.

It happens across the board - industry, NHS, local government. The Peter Principle in action perhaps. So many people with no management skills in management positions.

talking about this today. they turn up, pass the interview with their BS and acronyms talking about BAU etc. then perhaps a restructure or some new idea they've got. Never been on the ground, sit in the office on powerpoint, off to meetings where its BS Bingo. 3 years, box ticked, off elsewhere

Unless you work in a highly technical profession where hard skills are undeniable, it will always be the case that the people who are confident and talk the talk will rise fastest.

Yup. This is absolutely my experience too. Yanbu at all.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT. This is especially true in IT/tech management.

We may have met some of the same people! 😂

I'm not in the NHS any more, but certain NHS jobs do seem to attract the overly confident and mediocre men.

Yep totally agree with you. Whilst I was very fond of my old boss, he was very much one who talked the talk but that was it. He got made redundant 18 months ago and I took voluntary redundancy at the same time. He has since been ‘let go’ from several jobs and I got another job within a month and am actually more senior than him now.

Very true but at all levels. We had two people in our team, a mediocre man and an amazing woman. I was amazed to discover he was on more money than her. She fought for 2 years to get her job regraded. They are now on the same grade. He is still mediocre borderline incompetent.
One factor that stops men like this getting sacked is that they are assumed to be the main wage earner. So other men don't want to sack them and promote them above their abilities.

I’ve only had female bosses, most of them could fit this description though. Egoistic talkers who can bullshit the board but really are over promoted.

Hard agree.

That’s a fair point

Males seem to have that superpower where they greatly over exaggerate their own abilities. Women the complete opposite.

Biology and nature are a very odd thing.

I have had female bosses of the same ilk.

It’s all about talking the talk and oozing self confidence. Nothing to do with actual ability. It’s very sad. I guess it’s a tale as old as time though and those people always ace the interview!

Absolutely. They only promote and hire those who keep the scam going, it goes against their interests to do otherwise. Do not put your efforts into any business run solely by men (or mostly by them). They won’t take you seriously or they will see you as a threat. They’re mediocre at their jobs, but clever at keeping them.

I used to do in-depth executive assessment as a job. I lost count of the number of mediocre middle-aged white men who were basically in their jobs because they knew the right people.

The female leaders and POC I saw were all, without exception, shit hot, because they had to be.

I think that's absolutely true. And yes, there are women who have been successful with very average abilities, but they're in a tiny minority against the type of men you're describing.

YANBU, it absolutely boils my piss.