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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU my best friend's daughter only had a Muslim marriage and we are worried about custody of her son? (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

75 replies

joycies · 21/05/2023 18:35

Background : Muslim couple with 2 yr old son. Married 3 years then he walks out then comes back to throw them out. This came totally out of the blue, suddenly he says this isn't what he thought marriage was all about and she is a lousy, ungrateful, wife/mother, only after his money.

She goes home to her Mum with her son and he comes and takes him out a couple of times a week.
In a usual UK divorce, the court decides on custody but in the Islamic system there doesn't seem to be rules?

OP posts:
SaveMeFromMyBoobs · 21/05/2023 22:06

joycies · 21/05/2023 21:58

I THOUGHT 'CUSTODY' MEANT WHERE THE CHILD LIVED ABD THE VISITING RIGHTS?

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Yes, but it's no longer called 'custody', it's called child arrangements.

Original poster
joycies · 23/05/2023 23:58

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 21/05/2023 18:38

What precisely are you worried about? It isn’t clear from your OP.

Him trying to keep her son.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 23/05/2023 23:59

SaveMeFromMyBoobs · 21/05/2023 22:06

Yes, but it's no longer called 'custody', it's called child arrangements.

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Thanks, times change !

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:01

towriteyoumustlive · 21/05/2023 18:39

In the UK children have a birth certificate which will state the mothers name. If the parents are not married then to have the father on the birth certificate he would have had to be there in person.

So is the father named on the birth certificate?

If he is not listed then he does not have parental rights. If he is listed then it just goes through court if they can't agree like any other dispute.

The Islamic marriage is irrelevant.

He is on the BC as father.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:04

savoycabbage · 21/05/2023 18:43

Yes.

Is it that you think your daughter will loose custody to her ex? What's wrong with the arrangement they have now?

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We are afraid he might find a way to keep him at his house or fly him off to Asia to be brought up by some random cousin or Aunt.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:06

Leftphalange100 · 21/05/2023 19:01

You need to clarify what country you are in

UK

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:10

LittleBrenda · 21/05/2023 19:25

It is just like he's dumped her really.

The UK isn't a country. Is it Scotland, England, Northern Ireland or Wales. There are different laws you see.

Why does she think he's going to take the child?

They are in England. If he did send her son abroad it would just be to out her through Hell.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:36

fulanigirl · 21/05/2023 19:25

@joycies no that's not true. Custody is split into two categories, one where the child is unable to make decisions, custody is automatically the mother. After that it's considered "sponsorship" and both parents can make a petition. The child can choose or a decision is made on who is the best fit, court or the sect they follow, that can all vary.

Custody always stays with the mother and her family for a young child. Rules on spousal support and child support is also quite clear.

Op all this is irrelevant as it's the law that counts! I just wanted to give you some peace of mind that your daughter won't just lose her kids and leave with nothing. She has rights! He's supposed to give her the same quality of life until she remarries. Like I said though, all this is irrelevant, it's the law that matters!

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Thanks for your reassurance. Is the 'quality of life' part of a legal procedure? He is giving her 1000/month child support but nothing else. She is staying with her parents but physically incapable of going out to work. She needs psychological support but refuses.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:48

GirloutofAfrica · 21/05/2023 20:55

She might want to start looking after herself so he doesn't claim she isn't fit to care for the child. She can look into a prohibited steps order to ensure he doesn't take the child out of the country. Your post suggests he has PR so equal rights.

That's what I'm most worried about - that either he just kidnaps him or manages to convince some authority that she is an unfit mother. Prior to all this, she never had any kind of MI but she is severely depressed and won't eat which was why she was in hospital with fainting fits.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 00:55

SaturdayGiraffe · 21/05/2023 22:06

Poor child. Dad disappears and mum reacts by starving herself into hospital.
I hope the grandparents can at least provide some stability.

They are falling apart too. Thank God there's the littl'un to distract them. This all happened from 1 day to the next. One day they were studying holiday brochures next day he walked out saying she was a lousy wife and a lousy mother. Even his own mother doesn't understand.

OP posts:
Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 01:01

magma32 · 21/05/2023 21:40

If you don’t know whether he has been abusive follow this link and domestic abuse victims can get legal aid, so she needs to gather evidence when she’s is well enough.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/

i am not a lawyer but I believe under the children’s Act she can stay in his house if she was the primary carer even without being married and having her name on the house or mortgage but without a lawyer she would be stuck.

in terms of family law they don’t need to be married and for her to block any attempts for him leaving the country. I often wonder why so many parents watch their daughters have nikah only ‘marriages’ and don’t warn them of consequences once they let go of their financial independence.

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Thanks for your help. I don't think there's anything which would be classified as abuse. Her parents begged her to get a legal wedding but she wouldn't listen. Crazy because she has seen so many friends being tricked like this.

OP posts:
fulanigirl · 24/05/2023 01:12

@joycies since they are in the uk she needs to follow legal guidelines. Them being Muslims is completely irrelevant here. They need to go through the legal process of whatever part of the UK they are in.

Original poster
joycies · 24/05/2023 19:35

fulanigirl · 24/05/2023 01:12

@joycies since they are in the uk she needs to follow legal guidelines. Them being Muslims is completely irrelevant here. They need to go through the legal process of whatever part of the UK they are in.

Thanks. All this info is very reassuring.

OP posts:
sabs1234 · 24/05/2023 19:42

She can defo take this further if she thinks he will take the son away they will take her side if they think he is a risk I hope she is okay. I wanted to ask on the Islamic marriage certificate did he give her any mehr? Like money or gold because In shariah law she can keep that he can't take that away from her. Has she divorced him?

RunningFromInsanity · 24/05/2023 19:45

Perhaps the child living with the father might be for the best for the moment?
He has a home, an income, a regular relationship with them, and crucially he is mentally and physically well.

It’s not a crime for someone to split up with their partner.

frazzledasarock · 24/05/2023 19:46

had to double check date of this post.

you cannot add a child to your passport the child gets their own passport.

the mother should go to court get a prohibited steps order and ensure she has a passport in the child’s name kept with her.

the child and residency of the child will be subject to the normal family courts processes.

Why exactly do you think they wouldn’t be🤨

frazzledasarock · 24/05/2023 19:48

If she’s too mentally and physically unwell to care for her child, the father should apply for residency.

Hankunamatata · 24/05/2023 20:13

Tell her to get the child a passport and keep it at her house and not tell ex

Nevermind31 · 24/05/2023 20:27

He might decide to go down the Sharia law route - she can totally ignore this, it is not a binding law in the UK. He doesn’t have any special fights over the child, and cannot take the child out of the country without the other parent’s consent (since they are not married).
the “wife” would do well to stay away from any religious leaders who try to convince her otherwise

GladysHeeler · 24/05/2023 22:19

Hankunamatata · 24/05/2023 20:13

Tell her to get the child a passport and keep it at her house and not tell ex

That would make no difference as he can apply for a passport and say the passport she has is lost.

newwings · 24/05/2023 22:33

You need to get some legal advice, so much speculation and misinformation on your part which is just creating further panic.

Forget Sharia Law you are in England not Pakistan. A Nikah means nothing here. If they have no intimate contact for 3 months they are practically divorced in Islam too.

Here's a few starters for you but I'm not a solicitor.

Residency order - stay in the family home while child is young.

Prohibited steps order - prevents father leaving with the child.

Also if mum is starving herself then she is kind of giving the ammunition to the father?

Original poster
joycies · 31/05/2023 18:06

RunningFromInsanity · 24/05/2023 19:45

Perhaps the child living with the father might be for the best for the moment?
He has a home, an income, a regular relationship with them, and crucially he is mentally and physically well.

It’s not a crime for someone to split up with their partner.

So who in your scheme of things, is going to look out for this child from 7am till 9pm whilst he is working?

OP posts:
ProfessorXtra · 31/05/2023 18:20

Residency orders are very rare. Even when married. Given they aren't it would be highly unlikely she would get a residency order for a house in his name.

There's no automatic right to stay in the 'family home'

Besides which, if he is awful, he would be likely to make her miserable if she managed to get one anyway. And you don't get to live there while the ex pays for everything. She may get CMS, but she would need to cover the bills, upkeep etc. Could she afford that?

Unfortunately, right now she is proving that she is incapable of looking after the child.

Them not being married doesn't increase the risk of him leaving the country with the child. Them not being married doesn't increase his chance of getting sole or majority care of the child. However, her inability to look after her child will increase the likelihood of this happening. Pps have given links regarding how to help prevent this him leaving the country with the child. But if she incapable of parenting, she is at real risk of him becoming the primary resident parent.

He is giving a £1000pm and nothing more. How much does he earn? Because it maybe that he is giving more than he needs to.

ProfessorXtra · 31/05/2023 18:22

joycies · 31/05/2023 18:06

So who in your scheme of things, is going to look out for this child from 7am till 9pm whilst he is working?

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He works 14 hour days? Every day?

I imagine if he wants sole care of the child, he will cut down his hours, wfh if possible in the evenings and use childcare.

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