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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not pay my cleaner holiday pay?

72 replies

BoffinMum · 06/07/2010 15:15

Please do not chortle at the middle class nature of this thread, as I am a bit upset, but I would genuinely like some MN views, so don't be too rough with me.

I have a full time job and a long commute. My cleaner is lovely, but a bit ineffectual, so I have to do a fair bit of top up housework and spring cleaning type stuff myself each week (not easy because I have a disability). I pay her £10 an hour for six hours a week to clean a bedroom, a bathroom, hall stairs and landing, a living room, a downstairs loo and quickly hoover a study and dining room, plus included within that she does about 2 hours worth of ironing. We are quite tidy as a household.

She has been with me for three years and during that time her productivity has declined (see previous posts). I have spoken to her twice about it. Until now I have also been letting her weekly standing order run on if she is away, as a kind of bonus. However three weeks ago she announced she was off for a long haul holiday for a fortnight, and mentioned to someone else in the house that she would be back in three weeks (not two as she told me). So for the past little while I have been doing all the housework and ironing while she has been away. During this time we also did our accounts and realised this was costing us £3k+ a year and we couldn't not really afford it in the present climate, especially if it wasn't always being done very well.

I stopped the standing order, as I felt she was not my employee and she was charging a fairly ample freelance rate, and I rang her upon her return to explain what was going on and that I had to let her go for financial reasons. We had a bit of a roundabout conversation but left it that I would give her two weeks' notice and she would come today.

She came and was very unhappy and then flounced, not coming back, because she reckoned she was entitled to two weeks' paid holiday a year (I have a feeling she's already had more than that, actually, but I never kept records because to me it was a bonus situation) and we had let her down.
I explained my point of view, namely that she was charging full whack as a freelancer and then asking for holiday pay on top of that, which in some ways was a bit steep. Neither side saw the other's point of view.

She is now really upset and so am I. I have been made to feel bad despite the fact that I feel I have been pretty tolerant and generous over the years, and ever so slightly taken advantage of at times (for example sometimes she gets her daughter to come in to clean for her, and even less is done then). She feels she has been loyal and had it thrown back in her face.

Views please (but be a bit gentle).

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 07/07/2010 16:18

You'll be OK. Takes a year to get used to a new place. You're nearly there.

OP posts:
iamamug · 07/07/2010 17:01

YANBU she is very lucky to get £10 an hour - bear in mind this is tax and NI free - we all know she's not declaring it. My sister cleans for a few people and doesn't get paid if she doesn't work whoever is on holiday (the client or her) That is normal IMO.
I have had cleaners for years, some good, some not so good and have never paid them holiday pay.
Also I have seen your previous thread and I think I commented on it - she was a seriously crap cleaner - you are well rid!
A good cleaner would be on top of your place and do the ironing in 4 hours easily.
Find yourseld someone else and tell them what you pay per hour - we were fighting tem off with a stick offering £6 per hour!
Plenty of people need work and cleaning private houses cash in hand is actually a great job. Good luck x

BoffinMum · 07/07/2010 17:04

I was under the impression she was paying taxes and NI, or at least she led me to believe she was kosher.

OP posts:
iamamug · 07/07/2010 17:13

She may have been paying it - I might be being unfair but £10 an hour is a very good rate of pay for a non skilled job - We do not live in the south so £6 to £7 is usual here if you are paying someone directly - an agency would charge more.
However, the fact remains that she was rubbish. I know what that's like and also remember being very friendly with one or two of my cleaners and then finding it very difficult to remonstrate when things weren't done properly, it's not rocket science is it?I wish my sister lived closer as she is the best cleaner in the world (touch of OCD - always a blessing in a cleaner!)
Hope you manage to find a better one.

librium · 07/07/2010 17:17

you are well rid.
She was not a good cleaner.

Mittz · 07/07/2010 17:37

YANBU, I run a 'household service' business and wouldn't dream of expecting holiday pay. One customer chose to but we ditched the idea as it got confusing with the time I have off for kids holidays/ illnesses (it was their choice not to want the DC's to go with me).

For £10 an hour, you should have felt more than satisfied, and the only thing I might have done differently was to explain what I was doing before I did it, rather after, but No, not unreasonable and she was unwise to not protect herself by being more honourable with regards to having such a good arrangement with a customer/client.

Where does paid holiday come in anyway , do we pay the window cleaners, ironing service, gardener holiday money? If you are self employed surely you adjust accordingly.

I get some lovely Christmas thank you gifts and bonuses but I think I would get some serious faces if I tried to claim holiday pay as an entitlement. I could probably retire if I did and calculated the back pay lol!!

BoffinMum · 09/07/2010 17:16

Update: Have interviewed cleaning firm and they are coming over next week for a trial.

This could have worked out better than I thought!

OP posts:
muddleduck · 14/07/2010 10:11

how did it go BM?

cockles · 14/07/2010 10:22

'All the blokes in my life say I am a big softie...'
Maybe they, or he, should be managing the domestic front then? Why does all this have to be your job?

fedupofnamechanging · 14/07/2010 10:51

I think that if you have a brilliant cleaner, then £10 per hour is not a high wage and is worth every penny. It may not be skilled but it is hard work if it is done properly. Your cleaner should have been able to do the jobs you described in the time that she had and I think you have been more than generous.

Wrt holiday pay, I think it is fair to pay if you go away, because you have altered the agreement. If the cleaner goes on holiday, then I don't think you need to pay unless you have already agreed to holiday pay at the start of the arrangement.

OP, if you have already paid your cleaner for times when she has been away, then I echo the idea of stopping the money transfer if you can.

I must admit to having limited sympathy with people who hire a cleaner and then tidy up before she comes. Pointless having one imo. Also, if you are not happy with the standard of cleaning, then you are asking for trouble to let this slide and continue to pay for a service you are not receiving.

BoffinMum · 14/07/2010 21:21

Right, they have been out and cleaned. I had to finish off the toilets as the bits just under the waterline were still brownish (TMI no doubt) and our bathroom was apparently hoovered aggressively with a crevice nozzle and not the correct attachment, as it still has a stripey pattern a couple of days later. However they did seem to get through a reasonable amount in the time.

But ...

The ironing they took away to do for me, the carefully and lovingly eco-laundered and line dried washing, came back reeking of fag smoke as though it had been hanging in a pub in 1975 for a few days, and I now have to relaunder the whole bloody lot. I am seriously unimpressed at this. It is three loads' worth and took me ages.

OP posts:
muddleduck · 15/07/2010 00:20

oh dear.

BoffinMum · 15/07/2010 08:38

I know.

I really despair. Why even bother spending hours doing someone else's ironing and them presuming they will be happy if it stinks. What on earth is the point in that?

OP posts:
muddleduck · 15/07/2010 09:16

I've met smokers who seem to think that non-smokers are just 'making it up' when they complain about the smell. They genuinely think there is no smell. Ridiculous and deluded.

I hope you were blunt with them

btw they do my cleaning but I've never had ironing done.

BoffinMum · 15/07/2010 09:38

Muddleduck, how long have they been doing your cleaning? Are you happy with them?

DH reckons smokers lose the ability to smell, which is why they don't realise how strong it is to non-smokers.

I did consider Febrezing it but thought I would never get the smell out even if I hung it outside, and it would contaminate the clothes in my cupboards if I put it away.

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 15/07/2010 09:39

PS Hedging my bets - another firm coming out to quote on Monday - £11 an hour and £10 an hour for ironing. Green cleaning products.

OP posts:
MarshaBrady · 15/07/2010 09:47

Oh that is very, very disappointing re ironing.

muddleduck · 15/07/2010 09:58

We've had them coming for about 2 years. We did have problems at one point, but have been fine recently. I think it depends who you get. Boss lady is great but some of her staff are less dependable.

dawntigga · 15/07/2010 11:00

Boff you've been a tiny big muggy, but it's cos you are lovely. You shouldn't have let her take you for a ride this long.

HadSomeStrongWordsWithHerCleanersLastWeekButI'mNotNiceTiggaxx

HarderToKidnap · 15/07/2010 11:19

You have CARPET in you BATHROOM? That is ming. Let the housework slide for a few weeks and save up your cleaning money to get some nice tiles down.

GinaFord9 · 15/07/2010 20:19

Message deleted

BoffinMum · 15/07/2010 22:41

Blimey, give us a hint what they said to get deleted then?

OP posts:
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