In not wanting The Pope to visit uk at the taxpayers expense?

[Alouiseg]

Apparently The visit wil cost 12m pounds. That's 12 million pounds to be pinched from other budgets. For a man who has been responsible for covering up crimes against children.

My MP will receive an email today and I will make my abhorrence very clear.

Amen to that

Great post Clazi

It seems people are totally unable or unwilling to see that the VAST vast majority of Catholics are not paedophiles or supporters of them. For any other group to be targeted and labled in such a way for the actions of a small minority would be horredously bigoted but it seems Catholics are always fair game

The Pope will come once and not again for maybe 30 or 40 years.... Are the feelings and desires of millions of Catholics in this country so unimportant that we cannot be allowed this? The amount of money spend of other minority activities and we are resented this one off event like we plan on holding it every year and building him a Palace. I think it's very sad.

It's not acceptable to denigrate other faiths>>
Oh yes it is. I do all the time. Primitive superstitious nonsense the lot of them.

selfish, me me me, attitudes.>>

oh yes. wanting the schools to be repaired before money is spent on protecting a man who covered for child abusers from his victims.

When will people learn to live and let live?>>

When religious groups leave us alone.

the World's most popular religion>>

A bit less so now this has come out, but popular doesn't mean good. Getting pissed and throwing up in the gutter is popular these days.

please don't insinuate that every catholic or catholic priest is a pedophile, >

Of course not, but we know his involvement don't we.

Merry - from what I'd heard, the CofE is stony broke. Lots of unsaleable, expensive to maintain buildings and dwindling elderly congregations.

I'm not catholic bashing. I think paying for any state visit when we can't pay for school reburbs etc is crap prioriries. Paying the security for the non-state part of the Pope's visit is worse. I'd say that about any religious or secular visitor.

BB;

What if the pope visits Africa?

How are poor starving Africans supposed to pay for the pope?.....or is it just UK catholics you think should pay???

your argument is bonkers

I've just thought of a parallel example.

How much have trips to the uk by the Dalai lama cost the british taxpayer? I bet its not been much. Doubt he's been on a state visit even though he's more a head of state in the eyes of the tibetan people than the pope is to anyone. Doubt he cost us much in security.

sure, I know theres nowhere near as many Buddhists as catholics in the UK but he can fill a large venue easily for teaching sessions.

In the current financial circumstances I wouldn't want the british taxpayer paying a penny for a visit by the Dalai lama, but you know, I bet he would somehow manage without and treat the whole thing with philosophy, humilty and grace.

Onagar.
I'm very sad that you feel this way however the catholic church does a lot of good for many millions of people both now and in the past. Where I live a group of catholics go out on a Saturday night to help those who're "pissed and throwing up in the gutter" get home safely.

Oh, yes, beat the living daylights out of the kids in your care and sexually abuse them behind closed doors, but show the hypocrisy of the Church by going out and helping those who are pissed and throwing up in the gutter.

Great set of priorities, eh!

Next time I'm pissed & throwing up in the gutter, I'll be sure to wear my inverted crucifix for protection, then.

I escaped the educational clutches of the Catholic church at the age of 11 & would rather be set upon by wolves, frankly.

Marjoriew, I think you're confused.
I'm not sure that the group I'm talking about have actually beaten their children or sexually abused them behind closed doors. In fact, as far as I'm aware their priorities are to help others. Still it's good to know that broad and sweeping generalisations are not extinct.

clazi, I would love to have some kind of accounting system to measure the good and bad deeds. Who did which and why.

You will naturally think the church causes good deeds. I tend to think that good people would have done good things anyway without a church telling them to. It works the other way too. Not all criminals who are catholic are criminals because they are catholic.

However, I do think that the attitudes taught by many churches on sexual matters helps produce people with hangups they would not have had otherwise. Also I think the whole idea of this life being a preamble to the real life does more damage than good.

The idea of a god who is guiding you and willing to forgive you (while it sounds nice I'm sure) does not in my opinion encourage personal responsibility. So on the whole I think we'd be better off without religion at all.

Especially of course as they tend to be misused by the cynical and power hungry.

Erm, no I'm not confused. I'm harking back to my childhood, when the clergy and religious showed their concern for others because they were in the public eye. Comforting the homeless, going out at night to feed them, and then coming back and kicking the living daylights out of us.
And I don't make sweeping generalisations. How do you know that your wonderful group are not abusing their children - you don't, do you - any more than any of us told on them when it was happening to us.
Maybe a few years down the line you might get a nasty shock. Who knows?
How do you know all this? Oh, I forgot - they're Catholics and they don't do that sort of thing, do they?
If I had the money, I'd be waiting for the Pope, accompanied by a few rotten eggs - very fitting I would imagine.

Grimma, who said they're broke? (Was it them?!!). I thought the CofE owned half the land in England? Maybe they've been gradually been selling it off...btw, I am a Christian, but believe church and state should be v much separate.

Onagar, you're absolutely right. There are good and bad people in this world. Some belong to religious groups, some do not. Those that are, and commit evil acts, are not following what they have been taught by any civilised religion or society. For many, the idea of there being an afterlife is the very point to their existence. Rather than absolving responsibility here on earth, it helps them strive to become better people. The point is we are all entitled to our opinions and our beliefs and, where they do not harm others, have a right to celebrate our faith in the way we choose. And, if for some, that means waving to the pope in his little car then so be it.

Marjoriew, I'm very sorry that you've quite obviously suffered. But please understand that not all catholics behave in this way. The majority are good, kind people who are appalled at the actions of the very few. It's akin to those who hate all teachers because they had a couple of bastards at high school. Or policemen or anyone for that matter. It's not right to hold the majority responsible for the actions of few.

I don't hold the majority responsible for the actions of a few.What pisses me off is the sickening way you all fawn over some old man in a frock, who protects the abusers in his ranks over the pain of the abused.
And, furthermore, I have 7 kids -all taxpayers and they object to some of their taxes being used to bring him here so that he can give you all a wave, and then bog off back to his summer palace to recover from those nasty people who booed at him in his little motor.
Sickening!

clazi, as has been said before on here many times it is NOT the same as a couple of bad teachers/police officers. We are talking about a system that protected and enabled the abusers. Not just a couple of random abusers. When they moved an abuser to a new place they were in effect procuring a supply of victims and funding his abuse.

Absolutely onagar.

I'm a teacher.

If one of my colleagues was implicated in a child abuse allegation, my response would not be to hush it up.

The Catholic church is not on a par with any of the professions, in its response to evil within.

I feel quite entitled to resent public expenditure on this matter.

Freddo - yes, I"m a woman.

Merry: broke as in not much by way of liquid assets - land and buildings but not cash. Doesn't help the CofE that it owns ridiculous number of schools when unfortunately the state doesn't have the money to buy them. I think they've already flogged a lot of saleable assets over the years - all those lovely vicarages now owned by bankers etc.

Hm, sequester their assets and flog them to whoever might have cash nowadays....there's an interesting thought but I am not sure the result would be entirely desirable. (late night rambling thoughts

Grimma, it was done before (by Henry VIII).

"It's an obscene waste of money."

... and so are Billions spent on our military for missiles and other hardware, and especially obscene when spent on nuclear arms, which we are probably never going to use.

Billions spent year in, year out, and on things we could very probably live quite happily without.