to make a fuss about job-sharing reception teachers?

[EmmalinaC]

DD1 starts school in September. Last week we attended the new parents evening and discovered that she will have two part-time teachers: Mrs X works Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Mrs Y works Thursday & Friday.

Many of the parents expressed concern about this and were told that both teachers were working mums and it suited them better to work part-time. They didn't really offer any justifications that were to the children's advantage (apart from 'it's better to have two teachers in case you don't get on with one' )

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the school by making a fuss about this but I can't help feeling that it is totally inappropriate for a reception class.

So AIBU to complain the school? To the Head? Or to the Governors?

In our school the classrooms always have more than just the teachers so right from day one they get used to many different faces. Two of mine have had job share teachers and it has been great...communication good between the team of four that run that class and across the other reception class.
They also do cross class work so they know the other teachers anyway.
If the teacher is off sick they get supply anyway so new faces agin....in our school they quite often have another teacher from the school covering so they then get to know all the teachers in the school thus building a strong sense of community.
The continuity comes from the LSA's but please don't underestimate the children....they are very adaptable despite parental concerns.
You are perfectly right to worry and want the best.....I speak as an ex-worried parent.

Sorry if I have repeated what others have said.

It's much better - you get two teachers working at full capacity, rather than one who's utterly knackered by the end of term (the only way I'd go back into teaching on a contract would be as half a job share - I'd never go full-time again just because I don't think you can ever do the job you WANT to do that way).

I'm going to say something though - a lot of the comments on here about those who aren't mums being inferior teachers - they're really personally hurtful.

I teach (I chose to do supply a good few years ago for my health's sake), and I'm an incredibly good teacher - I've been hunted out by heads who've met me on supply for jobs, I've been praised by Ofsted... I'm also childless. I fail to see how three years of infertility, followed by a miscarriage, now back to planet infertility (the reason I post around here - those two forums, or fora?). It makes not a jot of difference to my ability to teach - and indeed I don't personally think that my reproductive status should be laid open to parental scrutiny when doing the school-gate muttering about the new class teacher.

It is INCREDIBLY hurtful to me to repeatedly read comments about how I'm a lesser teacher (I take incredible pride in what I do), purely because, and not for a lack of trying - I'm sick of all the flipping shagging, I seem to be unable to get, and stay pregnant. Yet again it's one of those situations with endless assumptions being made that those without children are in such a situation because they're immature, or hedonistic, or financially careless - I know many who are that way because they're going through fertility treatment, or simply have accepted they cannot concieve.

I wouldn't view a doctor as less "good" if they hadn't had their appendix out themselves, I don't look down on a male gynaecologist because they've never had a period - yet it's constantly accepted to judge and rate teachers because they have/haven't got children.

Emmalina, given that you've been persuaded to see how things go in September I think the one thing I'd suggest (as a teacher who has job-shared in the past... for management purposes) is that at some point you simply ask if there's a message book/similar that the teachers will use to ensure information is shared. My partner teacher and I used an exercise book to jot down things that needed to be passed on whether that was a message from a parent or something significant that had happened during the day.

emptyshell, that is awful, it is unfair.

I know some parents think that way, but not all of them.

to the OP: it`ll be fine. It happens a lot these days. In my DS school it worked really well, for him and the rest of the class.

saintlydamemrsturnip - 'And who said anything about not raising concerns?'

Well just have a look at a few of the commenst that have been posted on this thread that indicates that concerns ' should not be raised '

'Flexible working is an important right for women to try to help us achieve something remotely resembling equality. If you complain it is very unfair to these women and supports the position of the many people and organisations who are against flexibility for working mothers. '

'For one, how can you possibly object to other mothers wanting to work part-time? What do you think the school should do? Ban al teachers from job shares? '

'do teachers have less of a right to part-time work than other employees, just because you think it might upset your DD?!'

I totally agree that the Op has no reason to have conerns at the moment but it does seem that the right of working mothers takes precedence over raising any concerns that people may have about their childs education.

I would like to add that any future concerns that the Op may have over job sharing and the education of her DD must be fully evidenced before 'raising her concerns' and not raised on a whim.

Milamea said 'There is a wide assumption here that all job shares are well managed.'

Totally agree having had experience of a badly managed job share , would like to add that I have also had experince of a well managed job share.

YABU. You are actually getting a much better deal. I have done job shares and you put in far more than you should!
Why do you want want shattered teacher who is trying to fit in a job and her home life when you could have two teachers who are not worn out with the sheer demands? Many teachers have small children. Getting into school for 7.30am and leaving at 5.30 earliest, getting a meal, putting DCs to bed, working until bedtime and working one day at weekends isn't going to be good for anyone! Part time the teacher can work on her 'days off' and have her evenings and weekends free. She is much more able to do the job.
By Thursday, when the teacher is getting tired the second one comes in fresh, rested and enthusiastic.
I only job share with people I can work with, we do things the same way, meet to plan and are a team.
I can't see the point in complaining, unless something makes you unhappy. It will happen more and more. It isn't just teachers with young families who want to do it-there are many older teachers like me who want to do it because they want a work/life balance.I think that it will be common in the future. It isn't the job that it was when I started-far too much paperwork-and a job share is the sensible way to go.
I hope that you realise that if it was just Mrs X she would have PPA time and the DCs would get another teacher. The huge advantage of the job share is that they can juggle days-if MrsX has a course or is ill Mrs Y can cover. If it was just Mrs X they would have to get a supply teacher.
I don't understand what concerns you have when you haven't seen it working-it is rather like saying 'I have concerns because the teacher is newly qualified'.

Seemed to post too soon-I meant to say the newly qualified teacher might be outstanding. Wait and see.

YABU - as a teacher I see this work all the time, children who are in Nursery are surrounded by lots of adults so the idea of two teachers won't phase them plus the TA will probably be the same all the time.

Most job sharers I know have been utterly fantastic - it's actually nice to have someone breeze in by Wednesday who's not totally knackered and waiting for the weekend!!!

The one time I've known it cause any problems were with the class I later inherited (so I know what a nightmare bunch they could be), who would always have kerfuffles in the cloakroom the night before changeover as they knew it was slightly less likely to be followed up immediately the following day - but, as the class teacher who got them the following year, they were the sort who'd sniff out any and all potential loopholes to cause mayhem anyway (I had to lock away and designate one pen for putting merit points on the board because they were fiddling it!).

Surprisingly reception classes even cope when they get a supply in for the day (if it's a good school they'll try to keep the supplies they use to the same regular faces anyway) and the average reception class has so many adults that there's always a lot of consistency around anyway!

Kids are remarkably unscarred by a different adult in charge - they're usually so fickle that by 9.05 they're busy making "Best Teacher Ever" cards for whoever is in charge that day! By 9.05 the day after - you've been demoted to yesterday's news and someone is is the best one in the world!

I am concerned that some posters are claiming that a jobshare is always a better deal.

It really comes down to the quality of the individual teachers. It is inherently no better or no worse than a single teacher. The only difference with a jobshare is that liaison systems must be watertight, and the two teachers should be prepared to both be available for parents evenings etc.

I feel it's very unfair to those excellent teachers who choose to teach full time that some people assume they must be knackered or not giving 100%.

I have worked part time (when my children were very small) but full time since they started school. I don't consider myself 'knackered' by Thursday morning - some of us can cope perfectly well with working five days a week.

I am not against job sharing if it works all round and doesn't disadvantage pupils or colleagues, but I am very uneasy with any assumption that it's somehow 'better'. If a teacher personally feels unable to cope well with five days then clearly it's better for them - but you can't generalise that therefore all teachers would be better part time. If I worked part time, I think my teaching would be the same quality, I would just be on a smaller salary and a smaller pension. The fact that I do five days doesn't alter the quality at all.

I'm not sure anyone is necessarily saying it's better; just trying to answer and balance the assumption that it is automatically worse.
And no one (MilaMae?) has answered my question as to why we don't worry about children getting confused by having two parents instead of just the one.

Piscesmoon started a post just now with 'You are getting a better deal'. That suggests that the assumption is that it's better.

I don't agree that it's automatically a better deal. One excellent teacher can be as good as two.

I agree with Violet,it's a very good point.

Also her point about it needing to be watertight,it really does otherwise children and other staff do suffer.We only got to see half of our jobshare on parents evening. Said teacher was perfectly within his rights to only turn up for half the parents evenings. How does not having a clue how my child is for half a week acceptable??? We had a whole load of other issues and liaison issues featured particularly highly.

The fact is a lot of liaison needs to be done in teachers own time and some don't feel obliged to ie stick to the hours. With 1 teacher this is never going to be an issue.

I also think we're getting away from the main argument of it happening in rec. I'm aware job shares are needed but I can't see the problem of avoiding it in rec. I've taught rec,Y1 and Y2 countless times.It really isn't a big deal in changing year groups in order to give 4 year olds continuity in their 1st year of school.

And Clem errrr children don't have a problem with 2 parents because they have been with said parents since birth and I'm kind of guessing they know them inside out. A teacher who sees a child 2 days a week for a year isn't going to have quite so much insight.

"A teacher who sees a child 2 days a week for a year isn't going to have quite so much insight."

I think this is very debatable. It is hard to have insight into anyone or anything without discussion/debate. I was not at all enamoured of my DD's French class teacher this year, who zapped completely on a critical feature of her linguistic environment. Another teacher as a sounding board might have helped to clarify the situation much earlier on.

YABU, my stepsister has a baby and is a PT jobsharing reception teacher and it works brilliantly. 2 teachers who get on well, share out things according to each others' strengths and are fresh for their share of the week rather than completely bogged down with the workload. As long as the teachers communicate well, it will work out fine and the kids will love it. Most of them will be used to having several different adults working with them if they have been in a nursery or preschool setting.

'Piscesmoon started a post just now with 'You are getting a better deal'. That suggests that the assumption is that it's better.

You are only getting a better deal because 2 teachers are giving more hours than one could physically manage! It is inevitable that in a job share you do far more than you should! It of course depends entirely on how well the teachers get on. I wouldn't do any job share-I have to know the person first. When I have done it, I have been into the classroom, seen the person work and decided if our styles match. The other thing to consider is if you can get on easily with them and divide the work in a sensible manner-drawing on each other's strengths. This is the other reason it is a good deal-I am not musical but I am very arty so you can share out accordingly.
It would be a disaster if they don't co operate and plan together and have very different styles. My other reason for going in is to make sure that I am consistent and do things in the same way.
I don't think that you can raise concerns until you know there are concerns.
The work load is dire for someone with a family-easing it must benefit the children.

My dd has had two job share teachers in Y1 and they have been fantastic. I've heard nothing but good said about them, and that it really saying something in our school of pushy parents! If my dd could have them again next year I would be delighted. She has thrived this year. (Was less happy with the singleton Recep teacher last year!)

I don't think all job shares do do more than they should Pieces certainly not in my experience.

Like you I'd never ever do it again unless I checked out teaching styles,strengths and readiness to split the role evenly. I don't think this is always that easy to ensure.I don't think any interview panel will ever go entirely on the other half's opinion.

'I don't consider myself 'knackered' by Thursday morning - some of us can cope perfectly well with working five days a week. '

I don't cope perfectly well. I reckon on 1 hour outside the classroom for every hour in the classroom and that is just to keep things ticking over-it doesn't account for report writing, class plays etc etc.
I could just about keep up full time if I got into school by 7.30am at the latest and left at about 5 pm to cook meals, have a quick sit down and work until bedtime. Saturday was a day off and Sunday was a school work day. Quite a lot of the holidays were taken up with the next term's plans. I think that reception is the hardest age of all to teach.
I don't blame teachers for wanting to job share-I know lots who do it and it works well.
I know someone teaching who has a 2 yr old and a baby and the Head has suggested that she getsinto school at 6.30am because the Head does-madness! (this person does a job share)

piscesmoon - but you are making a huge assumption there - first, that the two teachers will give more hours overall than one (possible, but not a given) and secondly, that those extra hours are necessarily going to result in better outcomes for the children. That is a huge assumption to make.
FWIW the best teacher my kids had at Primary wasn't always the first to arrive at school and the last to leave - but he was hugely talented and imaginative. To follow your argument to its logical conclusion, three teachers would be better than two, or indeed, a separate one for each day would be best because then they'd be fresh each day!!!!
Or is there some unwritten law that says two is the optimum number?
I think it depends entirely on quality.
Yes - a teaching workload is quite considerable - but that doesn't mean that those who manage it full time are in some way giving less than 100%. I think that's a very worrying assumption to make.

its pretty normal to have more than one teacher anyway as teachers get planning time during school time where the class would need anothe teacher..

I haven't had an interview panel-I have always been asked to do it by a Head who knows me- and the essential consideration is whether I can work with the other person. It doesn't matter how good the job, I simply wouldn't do it with the wrong person. There is no way I would agree to do it first without knowing the other person!
I give far more than I should which is why I find full time takes over my life! I haven't seen a job share where they don't do more than they should. I end up going to staff meetings and parent's evenings that I shouldn't go to if I was sticking purely to what I am paid to do.

Sadly not all job shares are the same Pieces and most would be interviewed.