to make a fuss about job-sharing reception teachers?

[EmmalinaC]

DD1 starts school in September. Last week we attended the new parents evening and discovered that she will have two part-time teachers: Mrs X works Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Mrs Y works Thursday & Friday.

Many of the parents expressed concern about this and were told that both teachers were working mums and it suited them better to work part-time. They didn't really offer any justifications that were to the children's advantage (apart from 'it's better to have two teachers in case you don't get on with one' )

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the school by making a fuss about this but I can't help feeling that it is totally inappropriate for a reception class.

So AIBU to complain the school? To the Head? Or to the Governors?

Nursery and reception are integral parts of the Foundation stage. There's a lot of playing in reception too, as formal learning doesn't start until Year 1.

Milamae- are you trying to say that job sharing amongst teachers is generally a disadvantage or just a disadvantage in Yr R?

Aware of that but as I'm sure you're aware they are expected to learn to read and write in rec as well as play and a rec class is different to nursery. Aside from anything else they're part of a school and a school day.

I think in Ks1 they are a disadvantage,in Rec a really bad idea,in KS2 ok,maybe even some benefits further up the school.

Gah! I am supposed to be doing be doing end-of-term paperwork but can't walk away from this thread.

MilaMae I think we are going to have to agree to differ, but re: your comments -
"I think teachers can get very staid....when you change year group it makes you think of things in a fresh way ,you're .....not continuously plodding on doing the same old thing..."

• I think you are right that SOME teachers may get a bit stale if they don't move - however it's surely up to good performance management by the SMT to montior the teachers performance and take action if it's needed? I get performance management observations/ interviews termly and we discuss my wishes/ the schools needs.

"I'm sure you,your children and their parents are happy but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best overall for a school to have teachers continuously teaching the same old year group especially if it means 4 year olds are lumbered with a job share because a teacher feels only feels comfortable in rec".

• Lumbered! thanks! Wanna see our yearly results or "outstanding" OFSTED rating?

"Sorry if a teacher doesn't feel comfortable teaching different age groups for the good of the whole school they shouldn't be in the job".

• Again, we must agree to differ, I was employed for recption PRECISELY because of my EY skills.

"If you stick with the same year group because you like it you'll never gain experience at other groups so will become less and less confident at moving as the years go by thus not enabling the head to make best use of his staff in order to benefit the children who after all should be coming first".

• You don't seem to countenance someone who LIKES their job AND can be very good at it. I assume you have had a bad experience. Indeed, a bad job share is as much a worry as a bad single teacher - but please don't tar everyone with the same brush. Our head does everything to deploy her staff to best benefit the children, but she also knows that happy staff are stable, productive staff so our views are taken into consideration. She's not a dictator, it's not an 'us vs.them' situation.

Right. That's better. As you were.

yabu I think it's great they can choose to cut their hours/jobshare to spend more time with their kids. My DD had the same in reception and it was fine.

Yes we will have to agree to disagree as I think 1 teacher can only be better than 2 for 4 year olds and I do think many heads share that view so don't put job shares generally in rec.

I agree happy staff are important but not to the detriment of what is best for children.I haven't had 1 bad experience but many re job shares and feel that only exceptional and particularly dedicated teachers can make them work.

Sorry but the "outstanding" thing does nothing for me,my own child's experience of a jobshare was in an "outstanding" school,the whole experience was to put it politely far from outstanding.

It will all depend totally on the teacher. The job share situation my DC has had this year has been worth many times the hopeless full time teacher my other DC had a few years ago.

I think YABU and don't really understand why you would want to complain.

My dd had 2 teachers in Reception and it worked fine.

Poor Emmalina... she only asked

My DS is starting school this sept and he has 2 job share teachers. I have to admit it crossed MY mind as to if this was a good thing or a bad thing...

I'm glad this thread came up, because it has put my mind at rest.

MilaMae - Actually I'm completely with you re: the Ofsted rating meaning sod all - I was in a fit of pique at the time (it's passed now!).

LittleMiss I'm glad I did ask! Overall this debate has been very reassuring but I'm grateful to MilaMae for being the lone voice in acknowledging there might be cause for concern.

We will both just have to wait and see...

I hope our DCs are among the lucky ones for whom job-sharing is the ideal scenario.

Believe me, I would love to be proved unreasonable come September!

I was told that the 2 ladies that will take his class are really good, they are older, 50s I would say, so I think they will be good for him...

Oh well it will be what it will be won't it!!?? I've got the home visit coming up in Sept, I'll ask them to explain how that works and see what they have to say.

Intrigued how MilaMae is the lone voice in the face of so many reception teachers and parents saying it works fine.

Clearly, not all heads share MilaMae's view if there are so many job-sharing reception teachers.

I personally don't see the problem. My dd's nursery teacher left half-way through the school year. Some grumblings from the mums but dd was unfazed. She even learnt to read at some point.

Captainunderpants - if course you can't say someone shouldn't job share because it isn't working out and 'children come first'.

No children don't overrule employment rights.

If a job share isn't working out you look at why it isn't and change whatever needs to be changed to ensure it does work out. There's no reason why - with good communication and organisation - it shouldn't.

Yes you have the right to expect that alterations are made when something isn't working out. You certainly don't have the right to say a job share shouldn't be allowed.

Children dont overrule employment rights - yes I understand that but that shouldn't stop a parent raising their concerns if they feel a job share is having a detrimental affect on their childs education.

And yes of course if they raise their concerns all parties people should work together work together to get it right.

I have been in a position with my child where a job share didn't work out but alsoI have seen job shares working out very well.

I am not going to become all PC because someone has a right to flexible working.

My son is starting school after the holidays, he will have 2 job share teachers and is also in a split class primary 1 and 2 together.

I thought this was a bit unfair as the other primary one class is a straight class and also just have one teacher.

I personally thought it would have been better for continuity etc if the mixed class had just one teacher.

Hopefully DS will be grand.

Thanks for clarifying milamae although I can't say that I agree with you.

I find it a positive for the younger children to form a good relationship with several caring adults, in the same way that they have in a pre school setting.
I think there is just as much pressure on the children further up the school.

My DS goes to nursery some of the week and to a CM for the rest of it. He isn't confused or distressed - he likes the variety

It's not being PC CaptainUnderpants (why do people say that?). How can being supportive of the right of people to work part time work be 'PC'? And who said anything about not raising concerns? (although I think it would be daft to raise concerns before the job share has even been experienced).

PPA time means that a Year R child won't have the same person all week, anyway. And if their teacher is an NQT (as many are) that will also be more time with somebody else in charge.

The sooner they get used to being taught by more than one person, the better, imho. Often a child who has only had one Year R teacher finds the transition to Year 1 to be more difficult than it might otherwise have been because they associate successful learning too closely with their teacher than with an internal process.

It is a misnomer to suggest that a Year R child could ever be with one teacher throughout.

Year Rs don't break, ffs.

I offer the story below as evidence of two things.

1. Reception class children are very resilient and,

1. If your child, for whatever reason, doesn't strike up a rapport with their teacher, the effects on their education can be disruptive. Unlike the effects of a well managed job share.

DS2 managed to waste nearly all his year in Reception at a small village school. From day one it was obvious that the only thing that he shared with his teacher was a mutual dislike. So the pattern of his days would go as follows:

10 am: ds2 and teacher have already had enough of each other. He is sent out for making "silly remarks" and told to go and sit in the corridor.

10.02: Any one of the school cooks/dinner ladies or the school secretary (all of whom think the little sod is an innocent victim !!) find him sat outside the classroom on a little tiny chair looking pensive.

10.04: After a deal of "poor little boy" commiserations and scornful "she's from Brighton y'know" comments, a home-baked biscuit and milky drink is rushed to the "poor little boy". Who thanks everyone with a winning smile and joyfully tucks into what has become a customary (and delicious) mid morning snack.

...and so it went on. Until I moved into town and transferred the "poor little boy" and his older to the largest primary school in that town. Where a long standing job-share existed for Reception and where it also became apparent that ds2 had started to fall significantly behind in key areas of learning.

So don't be quick to complain about arrangements that you know nothing about in practice. Especially since the only thing that will come out of your complaint is the noting of your potential to become a nuisance parent.

Jesus little bit at the couldn't give a stuff attitude to 4 year olds starting school,have to say this is the only place I've witnessed it. Most schools bend over backwards to make sure rec have a smooth transition with as limited disruption as possible. Sorry but the experience of 3 or 4 teachers on MN is not the norm, many heads do avoid job shares in rec and disruption for jolly good reasons.

Of course rec don't break but to give them disruption when it isn't needed to suit teachers who are perfectly capable of teaching elsewhere in the KS is not on.It doesn't make sense to put the youngest,least experienced and confident children through a job share when it could be placed elsewhere with children who are confident readers/writers and have more experience of school.

Little bit sad that people think working rights,PPA time and unions should come before the needs of the youngest children. It's this kind of attitude that has led to it being so difficult to get rid of incompetent teachers as we've seen this week in the news.

I also happen to know the large amount of staff at pre-school settings aren't always a good thing. I've taught kids who bare nothing to their pre-school report because staff just don't know them like a teacher does. Who says large numbers of staff are good for under 5s? I was under the impression that exactly the opposite is the case and was to be avoided.

There is a wide assumption here that all job shares are well managed.

YABU and I have 2 positive experiences of it

the only time this has been an issue (lots of job sharing teachers around here) was when one of them took a deputy headship, taking her from the classroom a lot and then became pregnant, going off on maternity leave. Bloody irresponsible if you ask me