To be f*cking p*ssed off and angry when schools refuse to deal with bullying

[AgentZigzag]

I'm sick of hearing about children who have to put up with this shit.

Why the fuck is it still going on??

Thanks Zigzag.

She was utterly crucified bless her. And she was not a sensitive child (not that there is anything wrong with sesnitive kids btw) - she was quite tough and no nonsense.

She used to play football and rugby for teh school - she refuses to play for her new school as she has no intention of ever going back to her old school, which she would have to do for footie and rugby fixtures. I hate the fact that the after effects are still carrying on.

generally though she is far happier at her new school that she ever was at her old one (she was diagnosed with dyslexia after 2 months at her new school, after her old one pooh poohed all my concerns with her reading and writing), she is well supportive by lovely teachers and has got a bunch of nice new mates. I am still so paranoid about it - if she looks unhappy at the end of the day question her constantly, 'are you ok, is anyone picking on you, is everything all right' (to the point where she gets exasperated with me!) - I am so dreading it happening again.

GetOrfMoilLand I have a frind who has a 11 year old dd in an all girls independant school and the school will not listen. Last week some other girls cut some of her hair off in a lesson. The school claim this was an accident. Is there any advice i can pass on to her from you. When you left did you leave a letter of complaint for example. Is there any point ?

We had to take ds2 out of school 2 months ago because of bullying that the school refused to deal with.

He is 6.

The bully is the PFB of older parents who refuse to see that he is less than perfect, even haranguing the teacher and head about him not being on the gifted and talented list. I think the school hoped we would shut up and go away so they didn't have to deal with these blinkered and confrontational parents.
Father of bully is Muslim, mother is not. Don't know if this is at all relevant except that there is an element of deceit within the family with mother telling child, "Don't tell Daddy we went to see Santa/had sausages/made Easter baskets etc"

Sorry OP. No, YANBU.

It's crap.

It's almost as bad for the parents Getorf, nothing about being precious, but you just want to protect them and it's out of your control.

It did make me into a better person, not because I learnt to fight back (although I did) but because I could empathise with the 'underdog' and it's made me more proactive against injustice (hehe that sounds really wank doesn't it ).

It sounds very raw for you Sithmum, hope your DS is happier now and it fades quickly.

Snobear4000

Huge.
Sweeping.
Generalisations.

fathersday I would seriously consider suing a school. Surely part of every school's mission statement is to protect our children.

All the childre at ds's old school came from "good families" apparantly and would never try to pull down his underpants in the playground He was then told that he should try to sort out any problem himself. He got into trouble for asking a teacher for help, he tried to walk away and they carried on, he tried to talk his way out of it and they carried on, he tried to defend himself by blocking their kicks/punches and he got into trouble. How do they work this one out then?
He's not at that school any more.

HFD.... I would tell your friend to threaten with Ofsted and local press....schools cannot afford bad publicity in this economic climate.

Don't want to be contentious, but I used to be a teacher and had one parent in a lot, who used to complain her child was being "subtly bullied" by the other girls. I knew exactly what she meant as I was that child myself twenty years ago. It's the small things as well which can play havoc with a kid's self esteem: someone turning their back on you, "friends" going to lunch without you, always being slightly left out. Obviously this is in a totally different league to violence and stealing. My question is this - what as a teacher can you do about it? How can you make children like each other and play with each other? You can't. It's a very difficult issue. My mum used to be very angry on my behalf when the other girls would have a get together without me, but really what is there to be done? You can't force adults to be friends with someone.

To those parents who have a child who is being bullied, please don't think I'm belittling the heartache of bullying. I'm not.

So, the children from "good families"
In the first week he was at this school he spent a lunch time playing with a group of children who were wrapping flowers up in leaves and pretending to sell them as "smack", my child now knows what 'smack' is. A week later the bullying began, it was minor (snatching his books/pulling his shoce off and throwing them over the fence), then escalated into trying to trip him up when he was going down the concrete stairs, then telling the teachers he was swearing, then holding him in the playground whilst 4 children tried to pull down his trousers and underpants. Then someone rammed his head into a filling cabinet, then he had a ball thrown into his face as well as numerous kicks, IIRC a child tried to jump and land on his head whilst he was sitting on a bench.

My friend's DD was subjected to months of name calling and deliberate excluding from play (they were very young children so fortunately no physical bullying). The school were very slow to react. It turned out the main perpetrator was the daughter of one of the Governers.

There were all round.

YANBU.

Bullying happens Ariesgirl. There's no escaping it but it's how the schools deal with it that makes the difference. If they just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist or leave the children to sort it out themselves then this is turning a blind eye to abuse. If adults were in this position then they have the police to act for them. Schools just don't take it seriously. There should be a zero tolerance to bullying at every school.

I KNOW! That's what I made clear in my post. I was just asking how people think we should deal with lesser, subtler bullying, in which a group a children just don't like and don't want to play with another child. Because that is classed as "bullying" also. How do you make kids include and play nicely with everyone, if they just don't want to? Have a teacher organising the play? That can't work can it? Possible the wrong thread to ask the question on, as emotions understandably run very high about this issue.

They have circle time at ds's school, the children literally sit in a circle and discuss things like this and how it affects them, it's very effective.

I agree that to start with children should be told to try and sort 'disagreements' out on their own, and to defend themselves (I tell me DD to) but it's when the behaviour becomes systematic and ingrained that adults should feel an obligation to step in.

As a teacher it must be awful to see it going on, there are guidelines to stop physical violence, but if the whole class is involved like Aries says, how can you make them be reasonable?

Psychologically, bullying is supposed to serve a purpose in that it bonds the 'in' group together against a common victim, but at the centre of that are of course the scape goats. Perhaps who is chosen to be the victim, and why, is so arbitrary that it's impossible to predict and therefore stop.

At school - I think like most people - I was bullied and was a bully. It all occurred within the same group of 'friends', most of us that scared of two girls in particular, that we would do anything to stay in with the 'in crowd'.

The thing that strikes me now is that had any teacher intervened, it would have stopped. No doubt about it. We all saw ourselves as 'nice girls', yet our behaviour at times was ghastly. Children get so wrapped up in their own worlds and politics - it needs an adult to sort out.

My own DD and DS have been subject to bullying - the primary school was hopeless - it was the 'no bullies here mentality.' So of course, it went on and on.

The secondary school has been great - they dealt with it, it stopped. Immediately. For DS - no incidents at all since last October.

It is not just the bullied children who suffer by the school's failure to act - the bully suffers to. Anti social behaviour becomes entrenched as a coping mechanism.

As an adult, I don't feel bad about the times I was bullied - even though it got so bad at one point, I didn't go to school for two weeks. I feel bad about the times I was the bully - and think of one girl in particular who had to put up with such a lot from a group of girls who were supposed to be her friends.

TEACHERS - just sort it.

I think you should be asking the question aries, that's the problem, nobody says it purely because it's such an emotional issue with no one clear answer.

Just IMO, but I think questions about bullying and how it's dealt with need bloody shouting, at every oportunity, until something effective is done in every situation for every child.

I think that should depend on what the 'disagreement' is. If it's minor name calling then it's still upsetting, a child should be able to approach a teacher for support and guidance so they can deal with it themselves. A teacher should always be approachable. Violence or humiliation should never be tolerated, this is where the adults must intervene.

Any child that is different is a target. My son is very bright and small, he'd rather read at playtime, this is why he was bullied. For another child it could be their hair colour or where they live or their accent.

Hoopy - I did absolutely nothing after i took dd out of the school, pathetically. I just called the year head, saying I am withdrawing dd until I get her into another school, and that was the end of it.

I should have written to the head, lEA and governors, I know, but I was so sickened by it all that i just wanted to concentrate on getting dd sorted and on the right track.

I am still so bitter about it though. her old school is trumpeted as one of teh best in Cheltenham. I speak to friends/family who are considering sending their kids there - I just say don't be swayed by the league table position, swanky facilities, the 'name' of the place - the pastoral support there leaves a lot to be desired.

DD now goes to one of the 'crappy' comps in Gloucester. It has really opened my eyes. I used to be quite scathing about teh school, but it has certainly made me change my opinion. It's a cracking school.

I'm surprised the teacher told your DS off for going to them for help belle, I'm just imagining the 'stop telling tales' mentality.

If my DD has repeated trouble with someone (after she's tried to sort it herself) I tell her to go to a teacher, repeatedly, so they can notice it's happenening so many times, either that or they get so pissed off with her going to them they'll go and sort it out

Pulling your DSs trous/pants down in front of other children is the ultimate humiliation, and for them to not believe him is just so wrong.

Re low level bullying - structured play can make a massive difference, especially for young children. DS loved it when the marbles craze was on in Y3 - he had something specific to do, at a time when he was finding it difficult to play with the main group because of another boy's behaviour.

A bit of supervised play would really help a lot of kids out who are struggling.

I used to have circle time. It was developed and advocated by a woman called Jenny Moseley and it can be used very effectively if done properly. However, teachers need to be trained to use it properly because it's not just a question of sitting in a circle and talking about stuff. A school which has a genuinely proactive policy towards PSHE and bullying will timetable circle time into the curriculum, but if done badly, this can lead to more harm than good, as it encourages children to talk honestly about stuff and could give ammunition to certain children who bully. Things like outdoor activity trips are brilliant because it forces the children to look at each other differently, and quite often it's the quieter ones who come to the fore and gain friends, and the "bullies" who are the ones crying at the top of an abseiling tower because they are scared of heights. It can really level the playing field. However, not all children can attend these because of costs etc , so I agree, it's up to the teacher and the children who have attended such things to bring the positive ethos back to the classroom and continue it.

My dd goes to a crappy comp and is very happy as well. Does your old school have a "Ladies" in the title ? I had a friend who went there and was miserable.

I think my friend will just move her dd without complaint as well we live in a smallish town.

The head's excuse was that he had all afternoon to tell his teacher (he was too embarassed, he came home and there was grass and dirt all over the bathroom when he went to the toilet, he'd sat on the floor so they couldn't pull them down so they had put dirt in his pants instead.) The teachers were just not interested, when his head was pushed into a filing cabinet all I got from the teacher was that he had seen his part in the incident (he'd been playing a game, the other child was cheating, he'd asked the teacher to help and she did nothing so he told the other child he didn't want to play with him so the other child punched him and pushed his head into the filing cabinet that ds was sitting infront of). On the last day of term I collected him and he had blood on his shirt as a child had thrown a ball at his face (twice). No adult mentioned it at all.
The first thing we ask at any school visit is about their bullying policy. He moves to secondary school in September, it was lovely to see boys sitting outside reading, they have a zero tolerance and they have a mixed tutor group with boys from other years so he'll have boys watching out for him.