to think that the Coalition goverment are using the excuse of the deficit to cut benefits and support for the poorest members of our society?

[Jazzicatz]

It just seems to me the Tory led Coalition Govt are doing what they always do but trying to hide behind the excuse of reducing the deficit. AIBU?

YANBU.

It was an ideological budget, no question, and also a regressive one

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but all we hear from GO is that his actions are "unavoidable"

Well, yes, it is unavoidable to grind the faces of the poor into the dirt, if you are a Tory. And the deficit hands them an excuse on a plate.

This is why I'm so bitter about the mess the previous government made, and one of the reasons why I will never vote Labour again.

Of course the cuts are ideologically driven. Our economy could have been in tip-top condition and the Tories would still have cut lumps out of public spending.

They still actually believe in the "trickle down effect" which is of course twaddle of the finest order.

What we should cut is the defence budget (get out of Iraq and Afhanistan) trident. That and crack down on tax avoidence. I do however agree that people on £50K should not recieve any benefits.

If the gov had even a modicum of sense, they'd give up on trying to pay back the deficet too quickly. They should start a massive program of building social housing. It would give a major boost to the construction industry and solve many other economic and well as social ills.

But then, that might actually be of benefit poor people... Can't have that. After all, everyone on JSA is a "feckless" layabout. It's entirely their own fault that they are on the dole.

I'm going to instigate a policy of shoving a copy of the daily hate into the posterior of anybody else who uses the term "feckless".

You have been warned.

ExPat my point was that they can't arrive just to be on benefits forever, if they want to claim they will need to contribute.

All that will happen is that more people will move onto JSA (from Income Support and ESA). Then, they will have their housing benefit slashed by 10% after a year when all these jobs don't magically appear because, well, there'll be about 600,000 to 1m more unemployed joining the ranks.

But I'm sure private companies and charities will step in, since uber-wealthy Brits are so well-known for their philanthropy.

Yes, I know, Mingg. That's why I put that in my post. 12 months.

Tax credits they can get, though.

Oh, here's another one!

If a non-EU/EEA national marries a British person, that British person can claim tax credits for the non-EU/EEA national's children they bring over. The UKBA issues those children ILR, too, so they can also receive Child Benefit.

Agreed expat - there's a huge difference between what noneu and eu migrants can expect here.

The majority of migrants are from the EU - so goodness knows why this govt is trying to again curb non-eu immigration when it's already been done and it's pretty difficult to recruit experienced and professional people from non-eu nations.

I'd love to see a benefit review however it should have been done under labour when when the country was more buoyant. Doing it now I think could cause civil unrest it seems that pretty much everyone is struggling already.

Can you LEGALLY claim for family members who are not in the country. Have to say I know of two cases - one where this guy brings over his disabled adult brother and claimed lots of benefits (and a car) - horrible for the brother as he was away from home and had no freedom here. He's back in his country now but I wonder whether the benefits are continuing.

The other came to live in the UK with her new baby daughter for the sole purpose of benefits - through lying she's in a LA flat - on benefit having a great time.

How they did it god knows but it shows how fraud is common and it's common knowledge how to negoitate the system - even to people who live overseas.

I'd tackle fraud first and then reform the system when the country starts to emerge from this recession. That's a long time from now.

We have a welfare country and it's going to be painful (and certainly not an exact science) to sort out those who genuinely need assistance from those who have wilfully made themselves dependent on a high level of state help.

ariesgirl right wing politics are only a problem if you have left wing ideals yourself...........

Something has to be done about benefits as it has taken the 'drive' out of a lot of people to actually look for work. When I became a single mum I set up my own business for very little money. Never claimed a penny from the state.

In years gone by, people moved to where the work was and would do anything. My grandfather came down to London looking for work when he was a young lad.

The man who founded the Big Issue was on the BBC the other day and he was a very wise man. He said benefits should be a 'trampoline' not a 'safety net'. That people coming into the system now should have a contract that they would only receive benefits if they tried to better themselves ie voluntary work, courses etc. We should not be paying people benefits and then leaving them to sit at home, without hope. So many people are trapped in poverty with no way out.

Benefits should be there for the people who NEED it and not for those that just can't be arsed to work!

ExPat, that is just mad

Agree Stuckinthemiddle

don't replace trident - that would save a fair bit.

I used to go on a forum for non-EU immigrants, Mingg, as I am one myself, and they were all excited about their kids that are not even British or the child or a Brit or an EU/EEA national getting ILR and the gravy train of CB, CTC and WTC kicking in.

It sort of made me sick.

Yes expat, good point on the housing benefit

I was horrified when I heard that. If you've been claiming JSA for 12 months, your housing benefit will be cut.

Well, 12 months from now the cuts in the public sector will be well under way. At least 600,000 jobs will go.

And by trying to tackle the deficit so dramatically won't that just halt the fragile recovery.

YAB hugely U. Typical kneejerk reaction to anything Tory. Doesn't matter whether the policy is good or bad, if it's a Tory policy it must be all about keeping the rich rich and the poor poor.

"ariesgirl right wing politics are only a problem if you have left wing ideals yourself..........."

I completely agree with you 2old. I voted LibDem this time and would never have voted for labour, one reason being because of the arse-up they have made of the benefits system. The thought of all that money being poured down the drain makes me very cross. What I was (badly) trying to say is that this country spends its tax revenues very badly because of the choices it has made about who deserves money. Of course there are loads of people in genuine need who deserve and need supporting. But the bloke I know who won't get a job because he is better off on benefits, who owns three boats and spends his days on them citing the fact that he needs to look after his ill wife, isn't one of them. I gave the example of Sweden because it seems there that they don't mind paying massive taxes because they realise they will all reap the rewards, because their taxes are spent on things such as making their children's school meals healthier and everyone has agreed that is a Good Thing . In this country it seems only some reap the rewards. A fundamental change in culture and attitude is needed. We can't have it both ways - if we want lots of public spending then we should be prepared to pay for it, and if we don't want lots of tax, we should be prepared to cuts.

I love the quote about benefits should be a trampoline not a safety net. Some people have been looked after so long they have become helpless.

Excuse my disjointed rambling. I know what I mean, anyway.

Oh well, the Tories WILL get thrown out at the next election. Just hope this country can grit it's teeth until the grown-ups are back in charge.

And the budget got the broad support of the G20 nations. Or are all of the G20 leaders only interested in shafting the poor too? FFS.

yanbu
they are hitting the poor and the disabled.
scares me shitless as to what will happen is the support we get is reduced.
I think they are stupid and short sighted, if they reduce respite and support for families with disabled members, the families will fall apart and the person will end up in residential care which costs heaps.

I get what you mean too ariesgirl! Basically we don't it like when people take the p*ss!! I agree.

The Big Issue guy pointed out that Jeremy Paxman who was on the 'who do you think you are' programme discovered that both sets of grandparents were in abject poverty. He said that just one family member burnt the candle at both ends and clawed his way out of poverty through hard work. Without this, Jeremy Paxman could have been languishing on a council estate on benefits by now!

Tackling the deficit by cutting benefits for the poorest probably won't hurt the recovery much at all. The poor don't spend much on luxury goods or generate much tax revenue collectively.

Close tax avoidance loopholes and the sort of people that innovate and generate jobs, that generate tax revenue and spend on luxury goods, will either cut back on spending or relocate to some other country with more favorable taxation.

That's the tragedy of it really, it makes sense financially to cut benefits and not target those with more wealth.

Nothing wrong with the word feckless SITMWY, actually the term was used when Bevan was reforming the social system, it was one of the social evils that he sought to eradicate. Bevan was Labour btw. SITMWY, who are the grown ups exactly! The ones that left this mess that we are in!

boiledegg, in a nutshell that's maybe why lots of people don't like capitalism. Because it's so uncaring, yet logical.

I didn't know people who live abroad get benefit payments! whats that all about?

Hi Aries, "if we want lots of public spending then we should be prepared to pay for it, and if we don't want lots of tax, we should be prepared to cuts."

Who is 'we'?

If 'we' is the richer folk who will have to pay the lion's share of tax, if they are asked whether they want lots of public spending (and higher taxation), then the majority will say no.

Ask people who are reliant on public services if they want lots of public spending, then the majority will say yes.

The mindset in sweden must be very different to the UK. The issue here in the UK is that society is quite polarised so I think whether public spending is high or low, people will feel annoyed about it.

ssd, loads of pensioners living abroad who get Winter Fuel Allowance, people who work here and claim WTC/CTC on children who live abroad and Child Benefit, too.

jesus, I didn't know that