to think that my DS isn't ready to be toilet trained?

[MumOfAPickle]

First time I've posted in AIBU and am strangely nervous but could really do with some advice...

Basically Ds's nursery start potty training at the age of 2. I was happy to give it a go and DS is now 2.4 and its still not exactly a success.

To start with it was the usual stuff of not wanting to really sit on the toilet/potty but we're over all that now and he's quite happy to do so, knows all the language, knows he should be doing all his wees and poos on the toilet (he's not keen on the potty but we got him one of those seats for the toilet).

The problem is he doesn't seem to know when he needs to wee before it happens. He never asks to go or just goes himself, I have to take him and put him on randomly until he goes. The result of this is a lot of accidents and stress (I'm also 6 months preggers with no.2).

I have suggested to nursery that perhaps he's not ready but they sort of make me feel like I'm being precious and that he'll get there. But at the same time I get told in a disappointed voice about his 'accidents'.

The upshot is that I end up sticking him in nappies quite a lot and then feeling bad. I'm also worried that its not that nice for him to be constantly wetting himself

I just don't know where to go from here. Am I being difficult? Is it my fault for confusing the issue? Although I have had periods where I've really tried and its still the exact same result.

Would appreciate your words of wisom on this MNers

Quote EYFS at them. They should be responding to the individual needs of the child, not expecting them all to do the same thing at the same time.

Will see if I can find the relevant bit of EYFS for you....

You're all right.

I'm picking him up in a bit and am steeling myself to be firm.

I hear what you're saying re changing nursery but I'm in South East London and was on a waiting list for about 6 months for this one....we're also trying to move so not really practical at the mo....

Wish me luck

I agree with all the posters who say that children are all ready at different ages. My DC1 was at 2.5 years, DC2&3 were both at around 3.5 years. In my opinion so long as they are pretty much out of nappies by the time they leave home then there isnt really a problem.

In the grand scheme of things it really isnt that important - when were you last asked when you were toilet trained?

One thing you can guarantee - your son will finally come out of nappies immediately after you open a fresh pack and take one out so that you cant return them. This happened with all three of mine!

You are right about the nerve endings, they start to mature at age 2 and sometimes much later for boys. It can take what seems like forever for that moment to happen, but it does! Your nursery are BVU to force the issue, and won't do your son any favours in the long run.

It'll all go to pot when your new baby arrives and he regresses anyway! (try telling the nursery that, they may give you a break for 6m)

there is a section in the DDA covering this

nurseries pre schools must make provision for children who are not toilet/potty trained and cannot by law impose an age at which they must be in pants and trained

Would you like me to look it up for you?

It is indeed part of the EYFS as stated by Folk upthread

If all else fails let them know that you've consulted your GP and Health Visitor who are totally against the random age of 2 being the start of potty training and you will be following their advice to keep him in the group he moved up into, for mental stimulation and development to continue normally, BUT you will be keeping him in pull ups until the healthcare professionals believe he is ready to progress with toilet training.

I'm shocked actually about the level of their knowledge of child development in this matter and I'd be having words if it were me.

We tried to toilet train my DS1 a couple of months before DS2 was born, when he was 2 1/2. A dismal failure! It is now 12 months later, he has finally got the hang of going when he needs a wee, even though often at the last minute. I notice him squirming and he doesn't even realise he's doing it!!

Cue a year of making sure we have at least 3 changes of pants and trousers to take him out in... augh!!

But.... we now have the problem that he is chronically constipated. It began a few months after we began toilet training, for some reason he just started to hold it in. Now we have had to start him on laxatives in order to retrain both him and his bowel. Yay.... .

I really think it happened because he just wasn't ready to be toilet trained, even though he himself sat willingly on the potty when we first bought it and did wees and poos on his own the first few times - I think it was just the novelty. So please OP, don't rush it. If your DS isn't ready, the he's not ready.

I think that if you have been potty training him for quite a while and he is still not either telling you or taking himself then he is not ready. Reckon if they are ready they will be able to tell you or take themselves within a week of trying. Mine were both 3 when they were ready. Second one is 3.5 and only just done!!!

My DS has been toilet trained for about 3 weeks.
He is 3.5. Until now, he really didn't know he needed to go for a wee at all, was always very suprised when it came out! He knew when he needed to poo, but wouldn't unless in a nappy.

I stressed and stressed about it, before thinking, forget it, I'm upsetting us both.
1 week later, I came downstairs from sorting washing, and there was DS, having a wee on the potty!

If you think your DS isn't ready, then he most likely isn't. You know him best.

Please don't let anyone make you doubt your parenting. He will do it- when he wants to, and is ready to!

Good luck

Oh, and YANBU.

Chitchat - just read your post my son has been constipated too since my MIL tried to force him when he was 2!! Nothing seemed to help until recently when I have been letting him have lots of squash instead of water as he wouldn't drink enough of it. I also bought beakers instead of cups and he seems to love it and drinks tons out of them. He will not poo on the toilet but waits till he is in his bedtime nappy and then goes. But he is now going about once a day instead of one or two times a week so it is a relief.

2babyblues - we tried giving him lots of squash, but didn't help. He doesn't each much fruit because he's a fussy sod, but he does have lots of pureed fruit. He has porridge for breakfast, I sneak vegetables into his meals, he snacks on shreddies and loves his yoghurt. According to the GP he should be fine with what he has in his diet so clearly it has gone on too long and he needs the laxative now and will need it for awhile until he is retrained .

Quote from the statutory bit of EYFS:

"There should be suitable hygienic changing facilities for changing any children who are in nappies..."
Full publication here

Lots and lots in EYFS about "the unique child" and how children develop at different rates. They can't expect them all to potty train at 2, FFS.

YANBU, just started trying again with ds2 (he's now 3.5) and finally getting it. Tried last year and again a few months later but he didn't want to and it made him scream so obviously stopped. He's been going to pre-school this year since the term after Jan and they've been fine with any changing that needed doing.

They're also very supportive with toilet training now and go into the toilets with him if he can't manage, change his pants/clothes if he has an accident and generally just make it all really easy for him.

My older two were a similar age as well, they knew when they were ready. I really would leave it until he's happier tbh.

YANBU at all. My daughter had the same thing; nursery asked to potty train her. I knew full well she wasn't ready but had a go anyway as it had been a few months since the last try. 9 days later, we were back in nappies at their suggestion as they conceded that she wasn't ready.....that was the third attempt and she is now 2.6. I'm not having another go until August and only then if she's ready. Properly ready.

Like your son, she doesn't know until she's doing it and cannot yet tell me, and won't show any initiative in asking to go. It's so stressful if they're not ready, but yet I'm told that once they are, they get the hang of it really quickly. I'm hanging on.

Congratulations on the pregnancy as well!

Mumofapickle - good luck with the nursery. Please post again to tell us how it went.

Chitchat - all the best with your son. I hope the problem is solved soon.x

I first tried PT my DS at 2 & he wasn't ready at all. Waited 6 months then tried again - still not ready. We then moved house & I didn't want to PT at the same time, so in the end I tried again just after last new year - he 'got it' straight away & was dry in 5 days. He was 3yrs 6.5 mnths & was the last child in his nursery group to PT. No big deal as it's not a competition. It took about another 4-5 weeks to master poos as he didn't like water splashing onto his bum as he was pooing on the loo, so he kept holding it in & only going every 3 or 4 days! Soon got used to it though & he's fine now.

Well, I went in and spoke to the manager, she called his old keyworker up and then she called his current keyworker, so there was 3 of them in the end

I started by saying that I didn't think it was happening, that I didn't think he knew when he needed to go etc. and she said "oh no - he won't do yet - its early days".

So we all sat and discussed it for ages with me explaining that I was getting frustrated with all the peeing in pants and then feeling guilty because I know its not DS's fault. They listened and were understanding to a point but seemed to think this was perfectly normal and that none of the others in his group asked for the loo either, that they all just went when they were told to go, including my DS.

So I think even if I decide to go back to nappies I don't think they will as they're quite happy with how things stand, and DS (typically) actually had his first dry day at nursery today so they think he's doing really well and don't want to undo all his progress.

I can see their point but at the same time they have a set routine and, generally, they're at the nursery so the (special, small) toilet is right there. Whereas when he's at home with me and/or DH (4 days a week) or at his grandads (1 day a week) we're out and about doing all sorts so its much harder to put him on the toilet every 10 minutes (which is what they suggest). I did also say that it would be next to impossible to do this once I've got a newborn and that my fear was that this will go on until the physical side catches up which could be at any point (maybe 6 months).

They are all sure this won't be the case and are convinced he'll be dry in a month or so. So am still in a quandary about what to do really. I'm not sure whether it will confuse him by having one thing there and one thing at home.....or if I should just suck it up and keep washing...

ikwym
From MN and mum I am being told he is not ready and to wait
From MIL and well pretty much everyne else I am being told that if he wets his pants often enough he'll get it
Well obviously he'll get it at some point, will the pant wetting make it come much faster and is it worth all the upset and extra washing if it speeds it up by a month or two?

Sorry, only read op so forgive me if Im repeating.

Definately not being unreasonable - think you are dead right, actually, my dd wasnt fully trained until she was 3 and 2 months - much to the horror of various family members/ friends/ strangers on the street. I didnt see the big deal to be honest, shes a sensitive wee soul and I didnt want to push it on her when she clearly wasnt ready - she was obviously going to learn at some stage.

Think I mentioned the subject at about 2.5, she wasnt interested so I left it.

She just basically up and trained herself - completely, didnt wet bed at all etc.. she was ready herself.

IMO you are not being difficult at all, I think nursery are and I definately wouldnt feel bad for putting him in a nappy!! I would do the same - instead of him wetting himself.

He'll do it when hes ready.

I feel for you! Your nursery is BU and, frankly, a bit bullying (3 people to discuss it??).

I can only tell you how it went for my DS. He announced he was ready, 4 days in he'd started to get the hang of it (ie realised he was doing or needed a wee) and 2-3 wks later was dry. So in my limited experience, if your DS still doesn't know when he's going to wee by now, he's not ready.

However, I do think you need to make a decision and stick to it, as having two different 'systems' sends mixed signals and may well cause problems later down the line. So if you decide to carry on at nursery then my feeling is you should do so at home, get a portable potty, take lots of changes of clothes and be forever asking if he needs a wee... it's a pain but that's what we had to do with our DS (but, like I said, it wasn't for that long).

I do think in some ways the nursery has it easier, as they have the routine, the access to toilets etc., whereas in the real world it ain't so easy... and so I think they ABU to disregard just how difficult it may be for you at home.

Good luck.

YANBU I consulted a family member when I trained DS due to the usual pressure. She had fostered over 80 toddlers so was a dab hand.

Her advice was to follow my instinct, when they aren't ready they aren't ready. Gets very confusing nappy off all day, then sleep pants in the evening. I left it to 3 years and he got it in just under a week, nights and days. The only practical advice she gave me was to buy the cheapest nappies as you lead up to it, so they can actually feel a little bit of wetness. Nappies are so good these days they wick away the moisture so there is no sensitivity.

Or as summer is coming leaving him nekked and allow his curiosity to take effect.

Oh and thanks for all your kind messages, felt much more confident going in there and I'm v.pleased I said something so at least the onus is on them now. If he keeps wetting etc. then they know my position and that its them who are putting themselves in this position.

On the up side my DS doesn't seem to care at all when he has an accident

Sorry to hear about those of you having problems with poos. My niece had this and my sister just went back to nappies until it was all over. She's absolutely fine now and it hasn't had any long term effects at all.

I finish work in 4 weeks so might be a position to try and devote a bit more time to it and might try the naked outdoor suggestion one week-end.

The advantage of a son Mumofapickleis that the majority are quite happy to sit in their own mess till Kingdom come

YANBU, and am on your behalf at nursery.

In my opinion, a child who is capable of being dry if he is reminded every ten minutes to go to the loo, and put on the toilet at very regular and frequent intervals is not necessarily ready to be out of nappies. I think the idea is that the child can tell you when they need to go, otherwise as you say you are busy doing things, not asking them every 3 seconds, and they are having constant accidents. But then, I am very lazy, and DS1 wasn't out of nappies until 3 when he and I both felt he was ready. Perhaps this is the difference between actual toilet training, and just taking them out of nappies.

Maybe the nursery are right and this approach will lead to him being dry in a month. But I would be very, very uncomfortable with their attitude that they dictate to you and your DS in this way, and that your child is expected to fit in with their guidelines. I know of very few boys who were dry at 2.