to wonder what the point is in the school cake sale...?

[Ladyanonymous]

Three kids at three schools.

All have numerous "cake sales" throughout the year where we - the parent - are sent a paper plate with a little note on it from the plate itself requesting that we - the parent - fill the little plate with cakes and send it back to school to be sold at the "cake sale".

We are then requested to either take time out of work or whatever one afternoon to attend the "cake sale" or send our child in with some money to buy these cakes back.

Can we bake these cakes with our darling DCs at minumum cost to ourselves? Of course not, its against "health and safety" regs apparently.

So AIBU to think I would just rather cut out the middle man and donate the amount of money its cost me - to buy the cakes and buy them back again for the umpteenth time - to the school - either by a regular monthly direct debit (and while I'm at it lump in the total of every other "voluntary donation" in that sum too). Than go through the facade of the bloody "cake sale".

I keep suggesting that "a great book exchange" (or DvD's) would be a good way of fund raising if that's the objective.
Each child brings a book to the exchange and 20p to buy another one. Just choose a book or two DC is bored of, pop it in a bag, job done, no cost! It would be educational, useful, and kids could even get to play shopkeepers. Plus it's totally relevant to what school is about. It's not messy and any left over books could be given to charity. Our school however, does prefer the cake making carry on which I usually only find out about at 8.30pm the night before by text from p/a type friend. In a way if we really must do it, it does help that you are not "allowed" to make them but merely have the comparitively minor challenge of remembering the 20p and dashing to the shop on the way to school in the morning.
P.S I feel a new thread coming on. can anyone tell me what's wrong with an e-mail to keep us on track in this world of technology rather than the randomly delivered newsletter and its 200 notes for 4 different year groups?
Hands up all mothers who have arrived without the bike, own clothes, 20p, cake, trip money, tin of food for the pets home, pet , African outfit......?

I care for a child with a serious nut and egg allerey and the bake sale is something that i do avoid . However they are really good at making sure that the special cakes that i have made are not sold until charge gets a chance to buy one if we do stay

At the primary school that my kids went to cakes were expected to be homemade for these events. I always bought them and pretended.

If it makes you feel any better, the inefficiency of these types of events is replicated all over the charitable sector.

Look in a charity's accounts (Freely available on the Charities Commission website) if you want to see the cost of fundraising- can be as high as 90p in the pound at the margins (i.e. for every £ they raise, it cost them 90p to stage the event).

If someone tells you they're walking the Inca trail for charity, tell them you'll sponsor them not to. The charity will probably end up better off.

In their defence, the charities argue that it's not a fair picture because the events are important for raising awareness. However, this cant really be applied to a school.

Our cake sales make £1000 profit a year. That's clear profit. (Not factoring in time, that is donated.)

That's a lot of extras for the kids in a school in an area of significant social deprivation.

But I suppose someone will be along to sneer at this too. I jsut don't get why people ares so offensive to the concept of people raising money for their school.

Donqating something to the cake stall costs about a quid if you buy a packet of jam tarts. One non-uniform day a term - that's another 6 quid. A couple of bottles for a tombola - anything from 50p to whatever. And another few random pounts for stuff. £10-20 a year. Not really a life changing amount of money. And if you can't, you can't. Nobody's going to point and laugh and throw rotten fruit at you if you can't.

I totally agree with you seeker WRT the sum of clear profit a fair or cake sale can bring but I do admit that sometimes (as an active PTA member myself) that the money I have spent to make my cakes is often superior to the money actually raised from it (butter, flour, sugar, eggs, decoration thingies, time spent making... makes my fairy cakes/cake slice worth more than the 10p charged for it). think if all that was taken into account the "(i.e. for every £ they raise, it cost them 90p to stage the event)" might not be so wrong after all.

But I do not mind because at the end of the day, I have 4 dcs in that school and yes, I feel it is important to contribute a bit. Nobody is forced to contibute with a cake or money, a contribution of 1/2 hour or 1 hour of your time at the cake stall would be aopreciated just as much and is totally free of charge.

Seeker, in calculating your £1000 profit, how do you know what people spend on the cake ingredients?

It is clear profit for the school The Bride, the school has not spent anything for one to make cakes.

Yes, but that's the point. If the school are going to charge less for the cakes than the cost of the ingredients, then it's more efficient to just ask the parents for a cash donation and save everyone's time.

Of course you're going to make a profit if you don't consider your cost base.

If you're funding extras with parents' cash then you need to weigh it up on a total P&L basis including the costs of the cakes. If overall, it's loss making, then it's just not a very good way of fundraising and the PTA should look at alternatives.

Ladyanonymous - I think you misheard whoever was whinging about the Smartie tube - you can get just over £14 in 20 pence pieces in a smart tube, not £40.

At our school cake sales (and second hand book and toy sales) tend to be organized by the children themselves for their favourite charity. They make posters organize the stalls and sell the stuff themselves and they often raise £50 or more.

We also have a regular 'Pass it On club' which raises money for a group of schools in Kenya, each year group has a link with a particular school and writing letters to their school & getting replies is a highlight of the term.

Year 6 also hold a fundraising event in the summer term to raise money for their leavers' events - rather than asking for money from parents, they invent games and activities and hold a mini fair for the rest of the school to take part in. Of course, the parents end up paying, but the children learn that they have to put in some effort themselves if they want to get the benefit.

Thing is, asking parents for a donation with no activity involved just doesn't work. People are not as keen to put their hands in their pockets if you don't do anything to entertain them/give them something back. We have a Parents' Fund at school for people who just want to give money, and the Friends who run the summer and Christmas Fairs, cake sales and other activities. Guess which makes more money?

Btw, cost of ingredients for cake sales is borne by the parents. So the parents who make cakes are giving their time, effort and money, while the parents who buy them are giving their money. Between both categories, we manage to raise some money for the school, which is very important when budgets are so ruddy tight (and likely to get a lot tighter).

edam, the parents who make the cakes are generally also the parents who buy them back.

So, to use seeker's (I think)example of the quid packet of jam tarts (rather than a more complicated one of actually buying ingredients/making cake):

Cost per jam tart as bought: 16.6p (6 in a pack)
Cost at cake sale: 10p (never seen a jam tart for more than this)

Cost to parent providing and repurchasing jam tart : 26.6p.

Admittedly this is not a lot of money; but buying a 16p jam tart for 26p is economic insanity.

It's a social event too, so even if it costs a bit extra for the jam tart, your child is getting a choice of cakes, and eating them with her friends after school. Like paying extra to eat food in a cafe.

I do always end up buying back my own cakes. I can't make them look dayglo enough. Still, I now know to make a batch of fairy cakes, send in only six, point them out to the kids proudly, and keep the rest. For US. Usually I wouldn't bother making cakes for the family so it is a nice incentive.

Our pat has just installed a whole new set of play equipment ( like a kids trim trail). No way that would be covered by LEA funding, and funding is likely to get worse over next 3 years. There are lots of unessentials that can help make a school a much nicer place.

Throughout the year we have scootathons, wine tastings, pub quizes, karaoke etc - much more than just cakes.

Not pat, PTA. Damn autocorrect thingy.

AvengingGerbil, I can honestly say I have never ever bought my own cakes back, it is much more fun to sample what others have made.

I do not really like the idea of just giving the money, it might be easier than a cake stall but I thing raising money for a school is also about the community spirit.

Our school has 2 cake stalls a year, both part of bigger events (Christmas Fair and Summer Fair) If we were to replace those events by "plain donation" it would certainly kill that community spirit.

As well, we always have a little coffee shop linked to it. Hot drinks are 30p + 10p for a cake = 40p. Were else can you sit down, relax in the company of friends, eat and drink for such small cost (exept your own home of course) The average similar experience in a coffee shop will cost you about 10x that. Makes perfect economic sense

I don't mind the cake sales as they do one a month and each year takes it in turn to provide the cakes.

However world Book day where there are never enough books that you can purchase for the £1 money off voucher and they allow the kids to browse the stands looking at them all full price during the day so I get the guilt trip when its time to collect I do object to.

My kids have lots of books, in fact we have run out of room for books, but we buy them 2nd hand or over the internet at discount.

There is also a library so we don't waste money on fad series that they will have grown out of within the year and won't ever read again!

Having my daughter in tears every year because all her friends are buying books and we can't afford to, and she has already chosen the one she would like just makes me want to cry each year!

tabouleh - I am another fan if you do start a thread!

"Seeker, in calculating your £1000 profit, how do you know what people spend on the cake ingredients?"

Because they provide receipts and get their costs back.

Do they? WOW ! Our school certainly does not pay all the parents for their ingredients! Are you sure?

Absolutely sure - a friend and I organize it. Not everyone claims their expenses - I tend to help myself to a weekend's worth of someone else's baking instead, and some people, particularly if they only do a few buns don't bother, but our school is in a very deprived area and many parents couldn't afford to bake for the stall if they didn't get their money back. We have regular bakers who form the core of the stall, with others bringing stuff as and when they can.

We are a big school, though - 421 pupils, that's why we can make so much.

I've never bought my cakes back. Mind you, that could be because I very rarely make any! Usually forget, or only remember at 11pm when I don't have any eggs. I do buy some, though.

Actually our Friends organise it so each class takes turns in bringing stuff in for the cake stall, so I only have to fail to remember once every term.

I do know what you mean. On the other hand, you could always give school a big amount of money, that'll stop them asking everyone else for those silly smarties tubes to be filled.

Or you could always offer to run the PTA to fundraise "properly".

Or perhaps you could become a councillor and MP then get into government and overturn all those decisions to underfund education so you wouldn't have to bake cakes or save tiny amounts of money towards what seems an unachievable target in too short a time.

Or why not just enjoy and take part like everyone else!

Perhaps they could aim for a day of cakes baked without nuts or eggs (or whatever other allergy our kids might have).

It's really difficult finding foods without certain ingredients in the shops. And it would make more people aware of how difficult it it to find recipes or food in shops and perhaps any parents who are shop managers would finally understand and listen to our pleas of stocking more "free from" foods!