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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want my daughter to have boys names?!

73 replies

NETTEYJC · 28/06/2010 13:54

Have been with my partner for several years, he is Muslim, I'm Christian. Before I got pregnant I always said that the baby could have a muslim and if it was a boy it could also have his fathers name as a middle name. However, now that I am pregnant and expecting a girl my partner has said that she should have a muslim name, followed by his name, his fathers name, his grandfathers name and his great grandfathers name ( as is normal in his culture). Therefore, my poor daughter would be called something along the lines of Amira Hussian Abdul Ali Mahmoud ( Not the actual name but you get my point). Am I being completely unreasonable to put my foot down to this? I was thinking something pretty along the lines of Amira Rose then a double barrel surname!

OP posts:
gorionine · 28/06/2010 14:32

And most muslim names have got a female equivalent to

Mahmud+ Mahmudah (praised) so surely a good compromise could be found?

Ryoko · 28/06/2010 14:32

Why the male names why not the grandmothers and great grandmothers names?.

Rockbird · 28/06/2010 16:46

I might let him get away with one so Amira (Rose) Hussain but I wouldn't go for the whole string of them, that's a bit much. Is it all or nothing?

Original poster
NETTEYJC · 28/06/2010 18:12

I think you are missing the point gorionine, yes Ali could be both a boys and a girls name, but could I get away with Hussain or Abdul being both a boys and a girls name? I think not.

OP posts:
GiddyPickle · 28/06/2010 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
NETTEYJC · 28/06/2010 18:47

I know exactly what you mean giddy, I thought I had covered evereything before I got pregnant, I made sure we spoke about everything as the cultures are so different, we had been talking for 7 years about these things! it seemed he just agreed with me at the time about things to shut me up. Now I am pregnant he thinks he can lay down the law, anyway, I have now decided that there is no way that my child is having all of those boys names and she will be called Amira Rose Double Barrel Surname - I think I am being very amicable in agreeing to that, if I agree to him on this then he will think he can dictate everything to do with our daughter so I think its best to put my foot down from the very start.

OP posts:
EricNorthmansmistress · 28/06/2010 19:15

Probably been said before but that's just a family/cultural tradition not a muslim one. Where my DH is from children don't have middle names at all.

Firawla · 28/06/2010 19:27

they are not exactly middle names its the lineage, i would let him put them because it seems it means a lot to him? but then you have first choice on the first name? honestly its not actually the case of her "having boys names" its like a last name.. noone would think her actual name is dawud or ali or whatever else (i 4got the boys names you mentioned sorry)
then again i suppose he should realise that if you are from a different culture religion and background 2 him there will be comprimises involved. and is not compulsory 2 put those names all down on the register, we actually didnt do it for either of ours just put fn, picked a mn cos we wanted to and then last name, so kinda the western way actually..
but whether u register those names or not, as far as its concerned in the arab way of naming that would be her name anyway cos its the lineage so its just like a fact that it is her name? cos thats how names are made, in that way iyswim...
btw Amira is a very pretty name and congrats

Original poster
NETTEYJC · 28/06/2010 19:30

Yes Eric it's cultural, he's Egyptian, the Christians in Egypt also have their fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers etc names.

OP posts:
SE13Mummy · 28/06/2010 19:57

Probably not the best way forward but if you're not married and register the birth without your partner there he won't automatically be recorded as the father. So, he has a choice; either he compromise on the baby's registered name e.g. Amira Rose Smith-Hussein (but can tell family/other Egyptians that she has Abdul Ali Mahmoud Isa Yusuf etc. as part of her family name and that will be used if you have a naming ceremony) or you will register the baby's birth alone

I wouldn't be happy about being ordered to name my child in a way that I was uncomfortable with, particularly if I thought it might cause my child embarrassment later in life. Had you not already agreed to a Muslim first name and the double-barrelled surname I would have suggested that you use one of the forefathers' names as a second middle name e.g. Amy Rose Mahmoud Smith. My family (Anglo-Saxon with a smattering of Welsh) have a habit of including surnames as a second middle name e.g. Russell, Perry, Whyte. They all sound rather masculine but the girls all have them too and in that context it's fine but there is only ever one!

NorkyButNice · 28/06/2010 20:01

It's a cultural thing, and as someone else said it gives a record of your lineage, so is more of a surname than anything else.

My dad is Sudanese and has 4 "first names".

I quite wish that I'd been given one of them as a middle name as a way of carrying my Arabic heritage onwards with me - as it is I lost my Muslim surname when I married and now have a very boring sounding British name!

PeedOffWithNits · 28/06/2010 20:02

my friends baby has a middle name with 17 letters that the MIL picked because where MIL & friend's DH comes from in africa that is the custom. the childs mother cannot even SAY the name! but it will only be used for the most official of forms etc, and she was happy to go along with it to keep the peace.

boys names for a girl is not on though - are there female versions they could use - like a Roberta/Bobbie named after grandad robert?

PeedOffWithNits · 28/06/2010 20:04

LOLOL at Diva!

that just highlights how silly the idea is , tradition or not!

PhoebeBurbabee · 28/06/2010 20:16

OP, we had a similar situation where my family is muslim, DH's are jewish although he converted when we married. My family expected his first name to be our daughter's middle name but what we did was choose my name instead(a a biblical name). I have cousins who have done the same. Could this work for you?

Then when our son was born he still didn't like his name enough so we chose his fathers name(Leonard)for the middle name.

I still feel this shows our children's lineage and history as the original idea of fathers names intended.

desertgirl · 28/06/2010 20:18

it is completely the norm here (UAE) though I have never seen it go that far back, normally just one, two or three generations. I'm really not sure that they count as 'second names' though, or that you would need to register them to be able to use them, as they are 'facts' - you still are 'bint Ali Hassan Mahmoud whatever' whether or not it says so on your birth certificate.

I can't see why it's "silly" - is it silly when Russians have a patronymic as part of their name; is it silly that in Iceland they are known by patronymics and not surnames (Magnusson and Magnusdottir etc)? It's just different. And if it wasn't part of the deal, and you are not happy with it, bearing in mind it is not usual in the culture where your DD will be living, I would refuse, but in the way SE13 Mummy suggested.

Sn0wflake · 28/06/2010 20:32

The only relevant part of this is that he agreed to your original plan and has now decided to go back on the agreement. I would be putting my foot down.

Also just think it's a bit sexist to get all the male names without any recognition of the female relatives. Stand your ground and see if the fellow is a reasonable person. You don't want him to start throwing his weight around about all this sort of stuff.

diddl · 28/06/2010 20:41

It´s his culture but not OPs-so a compromise is needed.

The baby is having a first name from his culture, his surname-what more does he want?

How about Amira Rose plus his mothers, grandmothers or great grandmothers name.

FranSanDisco · 28/06/2010 20:50

I'd stick to what was agreed for birth certificate and if he wants to tell his family she has the full monty of names then let him. If when your dd is older she wants to include them then fine.

Songbiirdheartsfootball · 28/06/2010 21:48

Could you not compromise. My dd has the obligatory fathers and fathers fathers names but she also has my mothers name (which isn't an islamic name) as her second name for example Amira Jane Hussian Abdul Ali Mahmoud. It worked for us, got a few looks from the in-laws as I proudly announced her name but they were silenced quickly as I declared I was honouring my mother (which I was)

gorionine · 29/06/2010 07:06

Sorry NETTEYJC, I realise I was.

But Is the Femimin version of the names (if existing) a real no-no for your partner? It would still be in honor of the previous generations but not masculine?

TheBossofMe · 29/06/2010 07:16

If she ever gets married, everyone will hear her full name if its on the birth certificate - I believe its a legal requirement.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 29/06/2010 07:25

"Now I am pregnant he thinks he can lay down the law"

Yes, this is the real issue. The two of you agreed something before the pregnancy which was already a compromise and now he wants a different agreement. Those posters saying 'why not compromise' - the original plan was a compromise. Just because he moves the goalposts doesn't mean she should keep meeting him in the (new) middle, if that's not too mixed a metaphor.

Rolf · 29/06/2010 07:31

I can sympathise with him trying to hang on to some of his cultural heritage. After all, he's already moved away from it quite a bit, I assume, by having a child out of wedlock with a non-Muslim? My DH lives a long way from his family, and we've used family names from his family as our children's middle names. It makes him feel a connection to a heritage that is in most other ways no longer part of his life.

Could you use your agreement on the middle names to get first dibs on the first name? I'd think that was a pretty good deal!

FWIW, I don't think a string of male Muslim middle names would sound odd at all. People chose such a variety of names these days, and living in a non-Muslim country I'd find it lovely and distinctive.

PrettyCandles · 29/06/2010 07:34

I am in a mixed relationship: I am Jewish, dh is culturally Christian. We agreed to name our children cross-cultural names, ie anglicised Biblical names, and if our first was a boy one of his names would honour dh's family, whereas if dc1 was a girl one of her names would honour my family. Dc2 would honour the other family.

It meant that dh had to compromise and give up on names like Christopher, Harry or Elizabeth, and I had to give up on names like Tal, Amira or Yoav.

It is a compromise that has worked well for us. All 3 dc have names that we both like, we both feel our respective heritages are reflected in our dc, and both our families feel a sense of continuity and respect in our dcs' names.

It's not do much the OP's dp's change of mind that I find worrying or unreasonable, because your feelings can change when you have dc, and things that you didn't think that important can suddenly become very significant. What I find worrying is his intransigence. it may be culturally apprpriate to him, but it feels like he is saying "this child is MINE, you have no rights where she us concerned.". Not the best way to begin a family or to carry it forward, IMO.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/06/2010 07:35

NETTEYJC

I thought I have seen your name before. Not so long ago you posted on the relationships part of these pages re your partner.

The name of yrou child is the very least of your problems, he is a far bigger one. This is all about power and control; this is yet another aspect of wanting same over you.