To wonder how the bloody hell people afford private education for their kids?

[HarderToKidnap]

Thinking about TTC and getting WAY ahead of myself I idly googled the local private schools. Bloody hell!! HOW do people afford this? My DH and I earn 100k between us every year so certainly not poor, but with a mortgage (on a two bed terrace) and other, what I consider to be reasonable, outgoings there is just not a way it could be done. So all these children being privately educated, do their parents earn masses and masses? Or am I missing a trick?

(Incidentally I wouldn't send my kid to private school - comprehensive was brilliant for me and if a child is going to do well they will do well, I believe. Was just wondering.)

We'd have a "sacrifice" a child if we wanted to send the other one to private school.

Alfreda - yes, odd that, isn't it? In our city too it's not the areas with the "poor" schools that feed the private schools - far from it. It's the leafy suburbs with the high-performing state schools. Rather gives the lie to the notion that people "choose" private because the state options are so awful.

Oooh, feeling slightly excited and slightly terrified that I might know bibbitybobbityhat now!

(I'm 47 so does that narrow it down?)

Given the parlous state of the nation's finances, how long do you think it will be before state schools start asking for parents to make more financial contribution? My money's on paying for textbooks and exercise books ...

DC at a state faith primary school. We could afford private if we had to, but very happy with the school they are at ("voluntary" contributions of £1200 per term though, although can be paid from pre tax salary as technically they are a donation).

I can see though on a family income of £100k with a London sized mortgage a private school might be unaffordable for more than one child. I assume that those in private schools are:

a) being paid for by grandparents
b) being financed by MEW
c) being financed by cutting back on everything but essentials
d) high earners

MEW?

V interesting about the 'voluntary' contributions though- and people wonder why faith schools in the main do better than non-faith schools- money is the answer.

UQD "In our city too it's not the areas with the "poor" schools that feed the private schools - far from it. It's the leafy suburbs with the high-performing state schools. Rather gives the lie to the notion that people "choose" private because the state options are so awful."

No, I'm not sure it does. I know what you mean is that the state schools in the leafy suburbs are good therefore no need to run to the private sector, but one man's good school might be another's hellhole full of delinquents.

All it proves is that those in the leafy suburbs are the ones who are likely to be able to afford the fees ...

MEW = mortgage equity withdrawal - say for people who bought houses a while ago and the value has gone up.

Yes, DCs school was the best performing in the SAT tables in the LEA, with full scores at level 4, and very high level 5 scores. Its not surprising because the school has much more money that a regular state school and because most of the parents are middle class professionals.

thanks... that's actually our back-up plan should anything happen in terms of one of our jobs- we already have saved sufficient to put DC1 through to 11.

MEW has bene a big factor in grandparents paying school fees. To be honest the bubble n house prices as allowed private schools to get away with murder in raising fees.

Now house prices have stabilised and falling again outside London I know that grandparents are finding paying the fees has become a struggle. MEW is less available and I know at DSs school that grandparents are a big source of the fees and some children have been pulled out as the money has run out.

UQD, I think you're quite right about private schools not being necessarily about avoiding failing state ones. I went to a private school from 5-18, and lived in one of the leafiest, most middle class areas of a city that I think you know rather well. Though my term at a state school in said leafy area was enough for the teachers to tell my parents that they really couldn't cater for me (I was a clever child, not that I've achieved much since ), and that only the private school would be able to offer me what I needed...

Dh and I are both teachers in London. We have a mortgage and send our dd1 to private school and will also send dd2 private when she's of school age. We do not have help from grandparents or MEW. It really isn't that bad (£600ish per month - about half what daycare cost!) We pay monthly by dd and find it affordable. We don't go on expensive overseas hols - we prefer camping here. We do not have to forego things we like. Maybe we have simple tastes/needs, but I would give up anything if I had to to give my children the advantages that a private education brings. It's not just about being able to read/write and getting qualifications.

never heard of these "voluntary contributions" for faith schools, our CoE primary doesn`t ask for any.

I think only about 10% of the population can afford to, of those, only about three quarters do.

We could afford it, now, but we like the state options here and we also are scared to take on such a huge financial commitment (what if we lose our jobs?!).

If the state alternative is a lovely village primary, there is no need. If you live in a rough part of a city, it might be different! So many factors to take in.

I have some very good state schools nearby but two of my DCs go to private anyway. The state school options were not as good as the private ones for things like location, range of sports,activities, school hours, after school services, discipline, results, plus the DCs didn't like them as much. Also I wanted single sex education.

I know it is popular to talk about the other options being crap and I know too that many struggle to pay if they do chose private.
But the truth is that we can easily afford it and some people just can.

It is like all those threads about 'how can anyone spend £xxx on this dress or this handbag. Why would they waste their money' when the truth is that for some people it doesn't scratch their disposable income.

MN is a population. It will include the parts of the population who are wealthy.

I think the fact that the private-school customers come from the "good" areas proves both points - that both the will and the ability to pay come from a certain section of society.

To clarify, I don't think it should be taken to have any correlation with the quality of the state provision. And therefore it is not a tool by which the quality of the local state schools can be judged.

The reasons are more complex then that UnquietDad, alot of families believe that this is what is best for their children so will pay no matter what and will scrimp and save, alot of families live in areas where the state schools are poor, alot of families will have parents who attended a private school so they wish their children to do the same, alot of families have children with SN/extremely G&T and have tried the state system (or not) which they have found doesn't meet the needs of their child, then there's the ones who don't want their children mixing with state school children or the ones who want the prestige of sending their child to a private school (IOM, these are the parents who send their children to a cheap, substandard private school because the uniforms look nice). Private school customers don't always come from good areas, alot of families at ds's school are from an a deprived area of the city.

all faith schools allowed to ask for voluntary contribution as the state only pays for the secular education and not for the faith education. at my DC school they have to employ special teachers to cover the faith curriculum and this (rightly) is not paid for by the state.

its a lot of money though, £1,200 per child per term (if paying by charity voucher), its less if you pay with cash/cheque as then they can get the tax back. i think some less well of parents are put off because of the "fees" even though they of course wouldn't have to pay - eg there are no children at DCs schools who have free school meals.

State schools are often not 'free'. In ds's first school (state) they were always asking for money for something or other/fundraising. I remember them asking for donations for chairs which seemed bizarre, then they were selling plants, then book sales, then a school fete...

Families who move into a better catchment area often pay a premium on the house for the privilage, surly this is also paying for a better education?

Are you serious MumNWLondon?? I thought that wasn't allowed?

At ours (same borough as you iirc) we are asked for a voluntary contribution and it's made very clear that there is no obligation and no set amount.

The table is very interesting UQD - I guess it shows where people are either very very rich (Kensington and Chelsea) or the state options are poor. I'm in one of the highest percentages outside london.

We're going to be paying private secondary fees at least because there aren't any grammar schools and the stamp duty for buying a house the same size as our current housebut in the catchment area for one of hte better schools would cover the cost of privately educating one child for 3+ years.

Personally, I feel more uncomfortable with the idea of moving into the catchment area of a good school than forking out for private school fees. I'm lucky to be in a position to make the choice though. [Moved out of London so very small mortgage, earn enough to pay fees and currently pay for childcare. We won't have to pay for childcare long term so money saved will cover fees].

my son's doing his gcses at the local bog standard comp. shall i give him the bad news now that he's doomed?

yes, they are allowed to set an amount, it comes like an invoice - (but does day voluntary contributions) and if you don't pay its carried forward to next term (unless you call the office and explain you can't afford it).

they don't mind if you don't pay and you can't afford, they would get stroppy of you didn't pay and you went on a foreign holiday or got a new car etc.

my dd has been at 2 different LB Barnet state faith schools and its been similar each time.

I'm one of those who would sacrifice all to educate my twins privately, despite being a single mum (by choice - no ex.) solely reliant on my own self-employed earnings to do so - which are considerably less than 100K.

Recently, I bumped into an ex-colleague who's still fulltime employed, with wife too who also works p/t, and family income over 100K and NO mortgage and about 100K in savings, he said! He was wondering if he and wife could possibly ever afford private ed. for their two state schooled sons. I was gobsmacked that he thought he couldn't, given my own circumstances still allow me to fund two school fees (so far, at least).

It was an eye opener - firstly because I can see that people have different views of what's 'affordable' and spend their money on different things. We've never had foreign hols. I rarely buy clothes or go out/ eat out/ drink. Private ed. for my children is my top priority and it never occurred to me not to do so and I'm up at 4.30am to start my busy working day, in order to ensure I continue to do so. But this isn't the life for everyone.

Secondly, it's just not a priority for many and other things take precedence. On the other hand, the excellent local state school is still 2 years behind what my DCs school is doing with the children. So this for me says it all.