To wonder how the bloody hell people afford private education for their kids?

[HarderToKidnap]

Thinking about TTC and getting WAY ahead of myself I idly googled the local private schools. Bloody hell!! HOW do people afford this? My DH and I earn 100k between us every year so certainly not poor, but with a mortgage (on a two bed terrace) and other, what I consider to be reasonable, outgoings there is just not a way it could be done. So all these children being privately educated, do their parents earn masses and masses? Or am I missing a trick?

(Incidentally I wouldn't send my kid to private school - comprehensive was brilliant for me and if a child is going to do well they will do well, I believe. Was just wondering.)

DH and I send 2 DCs to private primary (around 3.5k per term each). We both work full time in well paid jobs. The school fees and our nanny are a significant part of our outgoings. But we are moving to an area where there are more choices for secondary - hopefully, depending on what will be best for them (grammar, IB, prep schools) and clearly depending on where we are financially. We know how fortunate we are to be in this position

Good financial planning will help us. We set up school fees plans immediately after we got married (8 years before we had children) so that the money would be there whatever happened in the future. As it is we have not needed to touch that yet but it is very reassuring to know it's there and the small amount invested over the years (which we didn't notice at the time) has been well worth it. I think many who send their children to independent schools have that as a key priority so are williing to forego other things to do it.

Has anyone ever thought that people may just get loans?

Or borrow from the equity on their house?

Therefore they are willing their children the best education rather than their house when they go?

"Going rate for private at primary age around here (Lancashire) is £5000 a year - under £400 a month."

But just because it's private doesn't mean it's any good! I would be wary of a very cheap private school because a lot of what you are paying for is all the 'stuff" that state schools can't afford and which state school parents provide outsie school. A cheap private school may not be aboe to afford the 'stuff' - so no realy point in sending a child there!

To the OP - I suspect it depends a lot on people's housing costs. Lifestyle eg holidays and clothes can make a bit of difference, but it's housing costs that really bite.

From what you've said you're spending £2500-odd on a mortgage each month. That's over half of your net income. I suspect most people wouldn't have a mortgage which took up so much of their income - either because they were luckier/older and managed to buy before the huge 2004-2007 house price boom, or because they were more cautious and chose to buy in a less desirable area so as to keep more disposable income.

I don't agree about avoiding the cheaper private schools but guess it depends why you're paying. DD is likely to go to a school which at primary costs 6k per year and secondary 9k per year. It is regularly in the top 20 if not the top 10 of the schools in the country.

Facilities are fine and perfectly nice but we're not talking acres of rolling countryside here. You pay for very very good teaching in reasonably small class sizes, not lots of extras. Its probably closer to a good grammar than a normal private school but there are plenty of that sort of school about.

Private school is ferociously expensive, no doubt.
That said, the school DD is going to in September, had a record number of applicants and a record number of acceptances.
So either more money is swishing about or people are seriously extending themselves.
I have mixed views on the later - on the one hand I take my hat off to those prepared to make huge sacrifces etc, but am mystified as to why people would get into massive debt.

Of course, I don't know their other options so you know...

I think getting second mortagaes is very risky right now too.

And the thing about cheaper private schools - I think it depends how the money is spent.

Some heads and governing bodies might be able to do well with limited resources.

Free schools won't get more cash than state schools but perhaps they'll be able to make a better fist of it than some of the existing schools.

Quattrocento Fri 25-Jun-10 23:53:27

We do!! honestly we do - one is in year 8 and one in year 4. We budget £25k per yeasr of net income.

We have a pleasent lifestyle but not lavish.

We have a lovely old house but it is rather on the small side.

We have 2 cars - not old but not new either

We even go on holiday twice a year once usually a drive to a self catering house in France for a fortnight and one for a week in devon or cornwall again self catering.

Dc have had the usual dance, swimming lessons etc and both play an instrument.
But we do watch the pennies and if I am honest I go without quite a lot of what i use to have (hairdressers, manicures etc)

I know of one family with double our income but are having to take their 2 children out of school for financial reasons

IMO it is not about your income but your expenditure

For us, the local state secondaries are amongst the lowest 25% in the country; our ES started at the local comp but was bullied and the teachers' attitude was very much 'so what?' so he had no support. We moved him to a local independent.

Then when MS came to senior school transfer we felt he'd do better at the independent. We have just had him assessed for a possible scholarship which will help a little. Then our YS's HT recommended we try him for an academic scholarship as he is very bright. He has been awarded a partial scholarship, which also helps, but we will still have huge bills to pay! Now we have to decide whether we really want to get MS & YS in too. We are fortunate in that we don't have a mortgage, but still have other commitments, some of which we will have to compromise on. We don't holiday abroad as we have a static caravan in Pembrokeshire that we've had for years so that will be our only holidays from now on!

Can anyone financially-minded answer the grandparent question?

I thought that grandparents could only pay for school fees out of income and not with capital . If they paid with capital, that would be over the £3k allowance and would count as disposing of assets.

Totally academic for me, as I have no parents and the pil would rather hurl themselves off a cliff than buy a pencil and rubber for the dcs, let alone a private education!

Yes I'd be wary of one private school charging £5000 if the going rate is £10,000 but the going rate here in east Lancashire for private at primary age is around £5000.

I don't dispute the figures quoted may well be true for London but it's not countrywide.

I

The school ds is currently at (don't ask) is very cheap, £225 a month but it has no facilities (good teaching though), no kitchen, no garden to play in, two extra curricular activities, no after school/breakfast club and it's subsidised by the church. You really do get what you pay for, he's off to secondary school in September which is alot more expensive but has everything.

My understanding of it is that you can give a gift of £3,000 per year, but this only becomes an issue if you die within 7 years.

So say they give £5k, in 2002 that is no longer an issue.

So I guess most grandparents, would hope that they would be alive 7 years after the child leaves school.

But I would also think that the gps who do this would have a large enough fund to pay Inheritance Tax upon death.

they can give a gift of any amount, only becomes an issue for IHT if the have estate over limit and die within 7 years.

each person can give £3000 from capital a year which doesn't count for IHT and also regular gifts from income are exempt, so if they regularly paid the school fees from income this would not count for IHT either.

Message withdrawn

If you see the value of private education, then above a certain level of income you make sacrifices to achieve it. I know many who have happily lived in very modest circumstances to give their children what they consider to be the best start. (actually what they had themselves under the state system 40/50 years ago.) and have seen the deterioration since then. This is the political point - all children deserve this but sadly it is not delivered. We see it in some politician's double standards. The point is that parents have the right to supplement their children's education. Granted, often Grandparents play a part, or there has been an inheritance, but the point is, it is invested in education and not consumed in luxury holidays.

Most kids I know in private funded by GP's tbh, although not always entirely- sister's child may get 50% funding from GPs.

But you know, some people just can and fees vary enormously. Sister and BILcan afford it; they only have one child, they have a hige 6 bed house and drive brand new gorgelous cars but they eat baked beans and holiday at the homes of expat mates.

Whereas we cannot afford it, eat nice food, drive a scrapper-mobile and holiday in a tent that costs actual money.

It's all about priorities 9ahould ppoint out that unlike sis we have a stunning comp on our doorstep; soemyimes it is far cheaper to move than pay fees)

GP's usually help towards the cost of ds's school uniform, gran has helped a little in the past but all three are not in the best health, grandfather (father's dad) had a stroke last year and is unable to talk/walk, my mum is in hospital waiting for a hip replacement, the other granny had an operation last week to remove part of her bowel and is looking at more chemotherapy. We have family on the east coast so can go and see them for a holiday, we do a few days out in the school holidays, other then this we don't really have a holiday. I will have to see what's left over in the summer to see if we can go to Paris. I did add it up though, it costs more now (cheaper school, less hours so have to pay a babysitter, cab to work as the earliest I can drop ds off is 8:45 so have 15 minutes to get to work, travel to collect him after work, extra curricular activities) then it will to send him to his secondary school in September

You can keep uniform costs down by buying them second hand. Some schools are less selective regarding where you buy them, you are looking at £60+ for a blazer from a school outfitters rather then £15+ from John Lewis.

Independent schools are really helpful with second hand uniforms and arrange sales several times a year through parent volunteers, a percentage goes towards school funds/charity. It is worth noting that the posher you are the more second hand you will buy! All very practical. Uniforms are cheap in the long run.

We have two already there and another not far behind.

Of course for some people it is never going to be an option however much they tightened their belt. To suggest otherwise would be arrogant and trite.

However, I know lots of people who say they couldn't afford it yet managed to afford f/t nursery fees for 4years. They then send their kids to state school and breathe out again enjoying holidays etc. These people could afford it is they were prepared to continue living very carefully.

But they often think other things are also important such as holidays, eating out, beauty stuff, day trips, decorating the house, new kitchen etc and (as a friend of ours once said) think 'We have a combined income of 60k. Why should we live the next 20yrs like we have a combined income of 30k just to pay school fees?'

I'm not disagreeing or saying they are wrong at all. Who wants to live an austere life if you don't need to? However, many, many people live just like that to pay fees. They (not us thankfully)sacrifice almost everything else for that one cause. So whilst it is correct to say that a great many people could never afford fees it's also right to say that quite a lot of people could if they were happy to give up almost everything else including anything pleasurable. I have spoken to a fee paying mum before who admitted she couldn't afford to have her hair cut professionally since her DD started school. I couldn't do it but thousands do.

dixie I am not in London, am South of Birmingham but not London.

We have been offered the full fees by grandparents but I think it is there money and I would rather see them travel the world with it.