Is NICE going too far?

[Sal321]

This BBC news story is about a suggestion by NICE (national institute for clinical excellence) that all pregnant women should be breath tested for smoking at their first MW appointment. I know I don't smoke, why should I be tested? I appreciate that I could refuse, but isn't this a bit of a weird recommendation?

I think it's just madness! Shall we test all the mums who go back to smoking afetr the baby is born? Isn't that just as dangerous? Oh and why we're at it let's do partners and grandparents too. In fact, when I go in to hospital to have my baby I want to test all the midwives who i come into contact with as I don't want a smoker around my newborn baby.

Mum's are fully aware of the consequeneces and should be left to make their own decisions about what is best for them and their baby. I don't agree with smoking in pregnancy but as an ex-smoker I know how hard it is to stop if you just don't want to. I think it's wrong to test them, it will just make them feel inadequate before they've even started. If they continue I wonder if there will be a further rise in the cases of pre-natal depression?

Thanks Ribena. Yes, i did find that out after researching myself. (research = googled and asked on MN. ) Mind you- the MW did not tell me that, and they should have surely.

It certainly was a comfort, as I worked myself into a panic about it!

So I agree with a lot of you that it's totally patronising to have to prove that you aren't a liar BUT there are a lot of comments on here describing smoking as a lifestyle choice / doesn't have medically proven links to health or pregnancy / nothing in life is 100% / smoking didn't harm our parents generation etc which sound a lot like denial to me.

I would hope that this test would be handled delicately but realise that some women will feel bullied or guilty about this which is a shame - though to start missing MW appointments for this seems crazy to me.

BUT if it helps a few women feel spurred on to give up or at least cut down then that's a good thing. If you know the risks and are happy to carry on smoking throughout your pregnancy (as it is your right to do) then is having to blow into a tube really such a problem?

And you can just refuse the test and direct your anger towards helping pregnant women get more control over their bodies - i.e joining the board of your local maternity unit, give useful feedback to your hospital PALS team after the birth, complain and follow it up if you feel you've been mistreated.

We get tested for HIV, chlamidia and now smoking....why not? Go for it.

Because you might be oblivious to the fact you are HIV or have chlamedia but you cannot be oblivious of the fact you are a smoker presumably. This test means that we are all suspected of lying if we say we do not smoke, very different IMHO.

Sorry, fprgot to say my last post was in response to PosieParker.

I think they should do it, if you smoke then you must accept the consequences, no more burying your head in the sand pretending it's okay.

But Posieparker, why should you not be believed if you refuse the test on trhe ground that you are not a smoker?

If they can make smoking in a public place illegal, they should make smoking during pregnancy illegal.

A baby in a womb has even less choice about taking in all the harmful chemicals of a cigarette than someone in a public place has.

Smoking has no upside.

Giving up is easy.

So give up.

" if you smoke then you must accept the consequences"

What I don't understand is, what will they do if you test positive to the smoking test?

Getdown - You really believe that? That a pregnant woman's body is owned by the baby?
That way total and utter madness lies.

No I don't believe the baby owns the woman's body.

But its rights are equal surely as another human being and in fact it needs to be defended even more than an adult as it is totally powerless to walk away from harmful cigarette chemicals taken in by its mother.

It says at some length in the guidance notes themselves that I linked to earlier -- essentially, offer to refer you to the NHS Stop Smoking people and then follow up at second appointment. If you still decline to be referred they are to accept your decision "in a non-judgemental manner".

I've always thought it was a stupid double standard to ban smoking in public places but to allow people to smoke in their homes and cars where children are present.

More people die from smoking related illnesses than any illegal drugs, so surely it's time there was a total ban? Though I do wonder whether the ban on smoking in public places and these new measures for pregnant woman are some kind of move towards this?

I assume that you believe that abortion should be illegal?

What about my baby's need to be protected from the fact that I work in a stressful job? Stress is v bad in pregnancy.

What about the fact that I don't eat the right diet. Do you want the state delivering my meals?

What if I go down into the mucky, nasty polluted tube or clean my house with evil chemicals?

Er no, not equal, what with not being an actual human being yet.

I boiled over with rage the other day when I saw a picture of a pregnant woman with a no smoking style line through it on a bottle of beer. How fucking condescending is that?

The only person who has rights over my body is me. End of.

I agree TheHouseofMirth it is a double standard. There should be an outright ban.

My dad smokes 30 a day and has done since he was 19. I am terrified what they are doing to him

Nictoine is a drug, that doesn't get you high, stoned, have any psycadelic effects or in any way intoxicating, has no beneficial health effects while creating a mild dependancy that requires frequent doses to maintain the user at the same level as non-users.

It's basically the worst drug in the world, and I see no reason not to ban it as it doesn't even give the users any pleaseure.

"not being an actual human being yet" errr, how do you work that one out?

stress, diet, polluted tube, sorry but these risk factors in no way compare to those of smoking.

This is a stupid idea, not least because as others have said it will cost a lot and will potentially harm the relationship between an expectant mother and her midwives/doctors etc.

The main reason why I think it is a dangerous idea is because it is the beginning of a slippery slope. You let one small insidious thing like this creep in, the end result could be women denied any autonomy over themselves and their bodies.

I think smoking in pregnancy is not worth the potential risk to the baby, but to me, a foetus does not have the same rights as an adult, fully grown, competent woman.

So you believe that while you were a fetus in your mother's womb, you did not have rights, and you would have been perfectly happy with the consequences if your mother had smoked during pregnancy and given you irreversible permanent health problems?

Quite easily actually, how do you not? What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of being a full human being?

Thanks Professor, I missed your link earlier