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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this advice on alcohol and breastfeeding is a bit contradictory?

56 replies

withorwithoutyou · 22/06/2010 21:49

Just googling alcohol and breastfeeding as I remember drinking a little bit when I was breastfeeding and DD was in bed but can't really remember much about safe amounts.

Found this quote on the drinkaware page:

Janet Fyle, professional policy advisor at the Royal College of Midwives (RCM), believes that saying it?s fine to drink in moderation sends out the wrong signals.

?The RCM advises abstinence in pregnancy and during breastfeeding,? says Janet. ?In the light of all the evidence, we believe cumulative alcohol consumption can be harmful to mother and baby.?

Telling women that it?s OK to drink in moderation is dangerous, Janet says. ?What is moderation? If someone is consuming alcohol regularly, it?s very easy for them to cross the line.? Mothers with post-natal depression or those who lack support could be particularly at risk.

However, while abstinence is the College?s official policy, Janet stresses that midwives are encouraged to take an individual?s circumstances into account. ?We?re not trying to tell people how to live their lives. If someone says ?I?m going off to a wedding, can I have a glass of champagne??, that?s different.?

Does anyone else find this advice a bit strange?

OP posts:
Original poster
withorwithoutyou · 22/06/2010 22:00

Just me then!

OP posts:
belly36 · 22/06/2010 22:02

I thought if you were OK to drive you're OK to nurse...

Original poster
withorwithoutyou · 22/06/2010 22:04

Me too belly.

I just don't understand why we're not allowed to drink in moderation, but it's ok if we're going to a wedding?? Well it's either ok or it's not, surely?

OP posts:
belly36 · 22/06/2010 22:09

With DS1 I used to BF while having a glass of red. Gave up alcohol for 9 months, certainly am not going to continue for another year.

PrivetDancer · 22/06/2010 22:09

It sounds like they just don't want to say it's ok to drink in case people are depressed rather than for the breastfeeding.

As I understand it you can have quite a few drinks while breastfeeding if you fancy. I certainly did. You don't end up with alcoholic milk. No need to worry about how many units per hour etc etc

ILoveDolly · 22/06/2010 22:10

Does moderation just mean one? whoops

GetThePartyStarted · 22/06/2010 22:11

Bollocks isn't it? Basically, they think women are too stupid to understand moderation - there is no evidence that drinking a small amount (1-2 units 1-2 times a week), is harmful, and IIRC none to show even 12 units a week is harmful during pregnancy, let alone breastfeeding when the alcohol would have less of an effect.

But us women can't possibly understand complicated concepts like units of alcohol, and could cross a line, so best to tell us not to drink at all. Unless we're at a wedding, in which case it's fine.

StealthPolarBear · 22/06/2010 22:11

I think what they're trying to say is they are back covering.
But TBH no one would advise new parents not to drink, and yet my main concern when I drink is being sober enough to look after my children, bf is only part of that.

Wow that makes it sound like I sit with a bottle of whiskey counting backwards from 100 in sevens

Original poster
withorwithoutyou · 22/06/2010 22:13

I'd rather they just said "don't drink" rather than all this patronising headpatting "ok at a wedding" stuff.

Then I could just go ahead and ignore them completely

OP posts:
TottWriter · 22/06/2010 22:31

I think that what they are trying to say is that they don't want to give a limit on units per week, because they don't want to seem to be actively encouraging a regular alcohol intake. You tell someone they can have three cups of tea per day while pregnant; they're probably going to have all three cups if they're a tea-drinker, and every now and then say 'one more won't hurt'. The fact that it's a 'maximum' often gets missed, though not by as many people as I suspect they fear.

However, if you tell someone that they shouldn't have alcohol on a regular basis, but that on the odd occasion drinking a little will not harm them, then that's clearly a different scenario. What they are saying is not to drink consistently, but that if you have a glass or two of wine once every now and again, you shouldn't beat yourself up over it.

Seems clear enough to me.

SloanyPony · 22/06/2010 22:35

My NCT breastfeeding "workshop" advised (by NCT breastfeeding counsellor) that you didn't have to worry at all. I asked her to clarify because I'm a bit of an old soak, but she just said its not something we need to concern ourselves with, the amounts are insignificant.

I suspect she figured we just wouldn't be drinking all that much (wrong!!!) and that its better to say not to worry than potentially turn someone off the idea of breastfeeding. She probably thought at the time, we'd be too concerned with quality sleep (true, to an extent) and would adjust our amounts if we noticed a reaction in our newborns (as most intelligent women would) if we did drink too much that she didn't need to confuse or burden or patronise us with amounts or units.

In a way I think it was a good approach. Once breastfeeding was underway most had enough little hurdles and worries without worrying about that too. None of our babies are alcoholics, well, yet.

HerBeatitude · 22/06/2010 22:37

They are basically saying that because some women drink too much, all of us have to be severely spoken to and warned not to drink anything.

It's woman-policing.

Tinuviel · 22/06/2010 22:49

The basic principle is that it takes as long to leave your milk as it does to leave your blood, around 1 unit per hour but obviously varies from person to person.

FortunateHamster · 23/06/2010 01:06

I asked at my antenatal class - I actually have never drunk that much and haven't at all (okay, I had half a glass at Christmas) during pregnancy - but I really do fancy some wine now I'm nearing the end (due date was today, bah). Anyway the midwife said it was okay to have the occasional one, but try and time it as far away from next feed as possible - and actually suggested drinking when feeding was the best time

Original poster
withorwithoutyou · 23/06/2010 09:38

"We?re not trying to tell people how to live their lives. If someone says ?I?m going off to a wedding, can I have a glass of champagne??, that?s different.?

Of course they're trying to tell people how to live their lives! They're saying one or two glasses a week isn't ok, but occasionally at a wedding is fine. I wish they'd just be honest about what they're doing!

OP posts:
ib · 23/06/2010 09:47

The fact is that people who drink tend to drastically underestimate the number of units they consume.

What she is saying is that if the advice is to drink moderately, women will drink too much, so the advice is to avoid drinking other than on special occasions which will probably lead to them drinking moderately.

I guess it's logic of a kind, just not very good logic.

anyabanya · 23/06/2010 09:54

There was an interesting segment on Radio 4 womans hour yesterday about pregnancy and alcohol. IMO it would apply for breastfeeding also.

The upshot of it all was that there is no objective epidemiological evidence supporting abstinence, but that the guidelines are being over cautious just in case. They did not really delve into the issues surrounding 'woman-policing' as HerBeatitude said, and I wish they had because I think that is quite the biggest issue around it.

www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/womans-hour/

MathsMadMummy · 23/06/2010 09:54

the rules change so often, I just abstain. not a big deal for me though, I hate all but a few alcoholic drinks and DH doesn't really drink either.

it's very important people realise it's the amount of time since a drink that's the issue - I know some people say if you express the first lot and chuck it, it's fine to feed straight after, that's not true.

there is a lady on my FB (I don't really knwo her IYSWIM) who is BFing and mentions wine a lot, does make me a bit

Morloth · 23/06/2010 09:59

Agree about women policing. We are not stupid as a group.

mloo · 23/06/2010 10:03

Well said, HerBeatitude.

RobynLou · 23/06/2010 10:14

when they changed the guidelines from one or two units a week to none at all, there was no new evidence, they just said that they didn't think women were capable of understanding what one or two units were so it was safer to say none.
If men were pregnant there is no way they'd be treated so disrespect, it's infantalising.
I drank very occasionally through my pg and bfing - I've bf for 3 years, I think abstaining for tht entire time is totally ott!

RobynLou · 23/06/2010 10:16

^ with such disrespect

PrivetDancer · 23/06/2010 10:23

but there's a big difference between drinking when pregnant, when the baby is directly receiving your blood, and drinking when breastfeeding, when only a miniscule percentage of the alcohol might end up in your milk.

You don't get drunk babies if you feed after drinking! It doesn't even make them sleep better, contrary to popular myth.

You really aren't going to do the baby any harm assuming you don't drink so much you drop them.

The only thing that can be affected is that some people's letdown reflex can be reduced after a couple of drinks but you'll soon know if this is the case. Personally it was never an issue for me.

There is no need to do this waiting for a number of hours before feeding according to how many units you've had nonsense.

Booboobedoo · 23/06/2010 10:26

Exactly - it's infantiising shit.

Give us the facts as they are currently understood (which is not very well), and leave us to decide.

A sensible woman is not going to start drinking to excess just because some guidelines tentatively suggest a (possibly) safe ammount.

A woman who wants to drink a lot will probably do so regardless.

All pregnancy/breastfeeding guidelines are like this. Don't give us blanket rules, give us the reasons behind them and then leave us to make our informed decisions.

A unit of alcohol takes about an hour to process, and it's probably best to have it with food.

Find out how much constitutes a unit, and you're away.

prettybird · 23/06/2010 10:27

I like the "women-policing"

It really is "giving advice to the lowest denominator": post-natal women are too thick to know what "moderation" is and anyway, could be depressed so would igonore that anyway, so let's just give a blanket prohibition.

A really good way to encourage long term breast feeding and seeing it as normal

How about identifying some of the issues, like PND and providing support.

I liked my best friend's dh's advice (they are both GPs) when I asked about having a blow out meal with more than the usual amount of wine (ds was about 6 months old at the time): "yes, , at worst, it might make your ds a little bit sleepy. And your problem is.....????? "

In the event I expressed, labelled it as "alcoholic" and gave to ds a month or so later at an appropriate time......