to think that this advice on alcohol and breastfeeding is a bit contradictory?

[withorwithoutyou]

Just googling alcohol and breastfeeding as I remember drinking a little bit when I was breastfeeding and DD was in bed but can't really remember much about safe amounts.

Found this quote on the drinkaware page:

Janet Fyle, professional policy advisor at the Royal College of Midwives (RCM), believes that saying it?s fine to drink in moderation sends out the wrong signals.

?The RCM advises abstinence in pregnancy and during breastfeeding,? says Janet. ?In the light of all the evidence, we believe cumulative alcohol consumption can be harmful to mother and baby.?

Telling women that it?s OK to drink in moderation is dangerous, Janet says. ?What is moderation? If someone is consuming alcohol regularly, it?s very easy for them to cross the line.? Mothers with post-natal depression or those who lack support could be particularly at risk.

However, while abstinence is the College?s official policy, Janet stresses that midwives are encouraged to take an individual?s circumstances into account. ?We?re not trying to tell people how to live their lives. If someone says ?I?m going off to a wedding, can I have a glass of champagne??, that?s different.?

Does anyone else find this advice a bit strange?

...anyway, somebody somewhere must be getting married so best to have a drink just in case

I asked my gp and he told me I could drink as much as I liked as alcohol does not pass through milk on ds. I hadn't been out in two years went out got slaughtered came home and fed ds dp had to help me feed I had drunk that much. Then when I had dd I was told the new guidelines and felt really shit and guilty, even though ds was obviously unaffected I still felt like the worst mum in the world but the gp did tell me it was fine .

Okay, I am going to hark back to the alcohol and pregnancy thing rather than bf, but slushy's post about feeling like the worst mum made me think of it.

I truly think that the paranoia and hysteria about alcohol and pregnancy/bf is indirectly quite dangerous.... aside from the whole woman policing thing. (I have written before under an old MN name about having someone physically hit me when I went to take a sip of DH's wine at a party).

I have a dear friend who has been trying to conceive for ages.She has been 'so good' with abstaining. They went to a wedding, she got absolutely smashed, and then found out later that week that she was pregnant. She was so distraught, and so convinced that she had 'damaged' the baby that she actually made the decision to abort the foetus and 'start again with a clean slate'. Nothing I or her friends could say convinced her that she probably would be fine. (How many people drink before they even know anyway? lots). I just feel so sad and angry for her, and also feel that i just bet she is not the only person who has done this.

My point is, that the hysteria associated with alcohol, the propaganda that is around it is harmful. Very harmful. Give women real information. Let them decide. How hard can that be, seriously?

thats awful anyabanya, truly awful. your poor friend.

anyabanya "I have a dear friend who has been trying to conceive for ages.She has been 'so good' with abstaining. They went to a wedding, she got absolutely smashed, and then found out later that week that she was pregnant. She was so distraught, and so convinced that she had 'damaged' the baby that she actually made the decision to abort the foetus and 'start again with a clean slate'. Nothing I or her friends could say convinced her that she probably would be fine. (How many people drink before they even know anyway? lots). I just feel so sad and angry for her, and also feel that i just bet she is not the only person who has done this. "

Bloody hell, if everyone who got loaded in early pregnancy (before they knew they were pregnant) did that, the birth rate would drop significantly. She threw away a healthy pregnancy because of one night out? Madness.

I was downing absinthe shots the week before I found out I was pregnant with DS1 (this is after being told there was "no way" we were going to get have a baby naturally).

Agree with the previous poster who said that the studies should be released, we should be given the cold hard facts and then as adults in charge of our own bodies make our own decisions.

I know. It is awful. All I can do is support. She's in the early days too of a new pregnancy, so that is something good at least.

Morloth, I know, it is crazy. Before WE found out too, we went to a party and I was slaughtered... cheap champagne fllowed by double whiskeys..... very bad news. I also went through an awful lot of panic, and am still a little bit anxious to see that everything is all right with this baby. There is a natural fear.

We went through this with my friend. Told her how many people conceived while drunjk... how many people for various reasons do not even know they are pg for months and months... went through how people of our parents generation were told to drink Guiness for iron for crying out loud. (My mother told her how she went 'off' wine so could only drink G&Ts... and they were pretty strong ones.) Her fear about it all over rode it.

If I had facts and units I would find it so much easier. It's all so vague

wow anyabanya - you have a lot more patience than me! If I had a friend that irrational I would find it hard to not tell her she was being utterly ridiculous.
The baby is just a few floating cells at that point (assuming she found out at 4 weeks ish) not connected to your bloodstream at all. Glad she is pregnant again and hope it goes ok for her.

I found out I was pg with dd (unexpectedly contraceptive failure) 8 weeks in. I'd been out nearly every night, all night partying the lot. I felt so so guilty. I spent my whole pg researching and frantically reading up on FAS. I totally abstained for the rest of pg apart from when i went overdue when I allowed myself a few glasses. DD is fine, I spent the first few hours after she was born filled with anxiety looking for facial characteristics of FAS instead of enjoying her .

With ds (planned) I drank as much as I wanted whilst ttc including after ov. I gave up for 4 months when got a +ve result straight away. Then when the morning sickness stopped I had a one or to glasses a few times a week. A glass every night on holiday in France and a few with my friend after I went into labour. I was fine and so is ds.

When bf I drank wine, I didn't get smashed but I had a few. According to my GP and a GP friend and several other Drs I know this is absolutely fine.

All this abstinence hysteria just causes anxiety and stress and until I see a lot of irrefutable evidence I'll always say a bf woman can enjoy a few glasses of wine.

Oh, no, I think I was a bit frustrated. But that is one reason why the various alcohol and pg/bf threads always attract my interest on MN. (And I am almost at my edd, and am so looking forward to being able to enjoy a glass of something with no residual guilt).

And it is why I really think that we need proper information, and a proper debate, as other posters have said.

It is frustrating the way it is assumed we are all silly things and need to have our hands held.

I don't take it as patronising advice in that way. I just think they do not know how many units is ok when pregnant and how on earth would you be able to find out?
A massive research project where lots of pregnant women drank different numbers of units throughout pregnancy and see which babies are damaged?

So it is easier to just say none, and that can't really be wrong advice, just over-cautious maybe, but not going to do anyone any harm.

Again I will say drinking when breastfeeding is a completely different kettle of fish and nothing to worry about

UGH do they think we are stupid? clearly less I think most of us know what moderations means

"UGH do they think we are stupid?" Yes

but privetdancer, how on earth can they say how many units is safe for driving? everyone's different, there can't be a blanket rule, surely better to say none but they don't.... men drive you see, but they don't get pg, only silly little women do that.
(I know I'm being a bit simplistic but it annoys the hell out of me!)

Well they can say how many units for driving as there is a legal limit on how much is allowed in your blood. easily measured and tested without danger to any unborn babies to get an average of how many units this equates to for the average person I guess.

It would certainly be better to say none for driving if you ask me, I'm not sure why they don't.

I do think it must undermine breastfeeding for women to be told they're not allowed a drink unless it's a very special occasion.

I agree, I think it probably puts some people off entirely thinking they can't drink for another 6 months or however long.

If I were to abstain for the entirety of being pg and bfing that would be over 7 years!!!!!!

Agree it is another way of making BF seem special and difficult when in fact everyday life can continue just fine while BF.

i didn't drink heavily whilst BF because i had to look after the baby...and being compos mentis enough to do that (and not too exhausted the next day etc)..until they slept through!

the baby is the reason not to get heinously drunk, not the BF.

Privetdancer, I think I love you

...but there goes my money spinning idea of selling alcoholic breastmilk cocktails to pervs...

I think this shit advice about not being able to drink while BF, definitely puts a lot of women off BF.

Which is fucking atrocious and the NHS should be considering how stupid that is.