to think we should be better educated about bereavement?

[zeno]

This is prompted by SassySusan's thread below in part, but is a longtime bugbear of mine.

I think we could be doing better at supporting bereaved people. It seems that the vast majority of people have little idea of how to reasonably interact with a person who has lost someone close.

How did we get to be so bad at this? It makes me very cross that as a society we look the other way, and as a result, bereaved people have to cope with the frequently wierd behaviour of people around them on top of everything else.

What could be done to make it better? Somewhere in our education system could we spend an hour or so thinking and talking about it?

There is plenty of material out there to help. Follow this link to have a look at one leaflet. It comes up top if you google "helping bereaved parents" so it's not hard to find. If you're in the "don't know what to say" camp, why not go and read up so's you'll know for next time!

On behalf of bereaved people everywhere I'd like to shout "Come on, make an effort!" and give everyone who runs away from it a bit of a shake, and remind them that one day for sure they will be on the receiving end, smiling politely through gritted teeth.

I speak from experience here having lost my sister (age 32, suicide) and daughter (age 4, acute viral myocarditis). Feel free to skip the "I'm very sorry for your loss" - I'll assume that bit

Thank you for the link zeno. I've just read it, and have to say that pretty much all of it applies to those of us who have lost someone else close (DH in my case), not just bereaved parents.

I particularly agree with the last three parts of the 'don'ts', the final one especially: no, DH is not in a better place - he is dead and I do not believe I will ever see him again.

I think one I would add is 'don't try to be an unofficial grief counsellor' - some people who have read a book on grieving or done a short counselling course seem to take it upon themselves to try and 'help' or get you to talk about it. Please take your cues from the bereaved person and don't try to push it.

I think part of the problem is that our culture has lost all its traditions around death and mourning apart from the basic funeral/memorial service - no-one wears mourning, and there are no accepted ways to mark time passing after a death as there are in many other countries.

Do you know what the one of the worst ones for me was when I recieved a with sympsthy card with that footprints poem

dear god!

My daughter is in yr 6 and she came home from school a few months again saying they had spent that days PSHE lesson looking at bereavement.

But I agree, a lot of the kids I work with have lost parents and siblings and even when I started I didn't know how to react.

I think sometimes I wanted to say something to make it better, and there was nothing.

Am presently trying to support a very precious friend as she grieves for the loss of her three day old daughter after a difficult birth, her first. Having lost my father to cancer feel I can understand part of how she is feeling but am struggling to really give her some hope and help her see through the pain. I would be so grateful if anyone could offer some wise words. As a mother of two I totally understand the love you have for your children, even before they are born.

That's a really useful link, thank you.

MLA as exexpat says, best to take your cues from your friend. If you haven't already had a look, check out this "do's and dont's " for supporting bereaved parents.

LadyA I'd like to know more about how schools cover it in PHSE. Here we have trouble with school/prechool telling children that dd is (eg) "sitting on a cloud playing with angels", and thus undoing all our collective efforts to explain to them where she is and why she can't play with them anymore. Not at all helpful to my mind, but I realise I don't have the usual take on this topic.

I have just finished a module on bereavment for a health studies part of a course I am doing.

The problem is that there are so many different rituals and beliefs now following a death and differences of opinion that it is tricky to always say the right thing. You have to try and take the lead from the bereaved person.

While posters above say the dont want to hear God mentioned or dislike the footsteps poem, many others do want to hear these things.Grief is unique to the individual.

People dont say anything because they are scared to offend. It is horrid and hurtful but it stems form a genuine fear and misunderstanding not malice.

I do realise it's coming from fear and misunderstanding. I'm saying should we not do something about that instead of just carrying on, shrugging shoulders because it's all too complex.

I think the religious issue is a red herring. You don't need to know someone's religious pov to be compassionate towards them in their grief.

I'd echo little ducks. It's such a subjective period and procedure that I'd imagine it's difficult to educate on.
I for one am the kind of person who would want to be left alone to work through it on my own and couldn't imagine a more painful fate than having to "talk through" my feelings, I'd be in the keep schtum and get on with everyday life in public while dealing with my feelings privately camp. Others will want to be engaged in conversation about what has happened.
So I'm not sure how much you can criticise people who don't know how to deal with it, perhaps they are acting in a way they think they'd expect to be treated by the other person if the roles were reversed.
On the other thread people were mentioning colleagues and how some of them failed to even mention it. Once again this is something I might do (depending on the size of the company) as the last thing I'd want on return to work would be colleagues who I don't really know bringing it up so I may wrongly assume that others feel the same.

From what she said it was handled very sensitively and was not given from a particually religious angle, she said they all discussed their pets who had died and grandparents etc - I had a quick look for the Yr 6 PHSE Cirriculam (sp?) but I can't find it - I'm sure it is online somewhere though. I think it was encouraging the children to talk about what they thought and their feelings around death and bereavement.

She said she felt sad but she said she enjoyed learning about it and it helped her to understand how people who have lost somone might feel, it wasn't long after we lost our cat so I think it helped her too.

I think we should bring back mourning wear like the Victorians had (and I mean that in only a semi-flippant way). A visual reminder that someone has been recently bereaved (IIRC the Victorians wore it for a year) could be very helpful for casual aquaintances and officials etc.

Have read and bookmarked the information thanks zeno.

A few years ago a colleague of mine, who lived on the same street as me, lost her husband, very suddenly.

We weren't particularly close, but as I lived so near I went round and siad that if she needed anything, I was just down the road, whether it was a few bits and pieces from the shop, something from the local takeaway, letters posting, or just to talk. She smiled and said thank you and then burst into tears. We hugged and I left.

I still feel awful to this day that I made her cry, and I wonder if I did the right thing?

I don't know why people are scared of others emotions....making someone cry in that situation is not nessaccarily a bad thing?

We all need to cry.

I'm not saying we shouldnt do something, just that its hard to know what to do

I read through the link and can see that although the suggestions may help some people they may not help others. Some people would like to talk, others find it agonising to do so and would just like to carry on as 'normal.'

People who do have a religious belief that the deceased is in heaven/has been reincarnated or something else can get really upset and offended if it is suggested that they are not 'in a better place' just as much that term upset exexpat.

Hmm, hadn't thought of it like that...

My husband died two and a half years ago. For what it's worth, I think individuals are better at dealing with bereaved people than institutions - although I had some (but very few) upsetting comments, it was institutions (hospitals and schools primarily) that were particularly insensitive.

I think it's hard for people to know what to do or say, but many people managed it very well as far as I was concerned. Just saying: "I'm so sorry", to the bereaved person is enough on most occasions, unless you are close friends and can offer more help and support.

I found going into the playground to pick up my children daunting, precisely because I was afraid someone would talk to me about what had happened and I would break down, and feel very exposed in front of all those people. But if someone had come to see me on their own and I broke down - that wouldn't have mattered, nemofish.

Because I was so angry about the way we were treated as a family dealing with a terminal illness and then death, I now give talks to medical students about what happened to us and suggest ways to behave more senstively to people in our situation (I would talk to other medical professionals if I could, I am not picking on doctors!).

We need to speak out if we can to try and change attitudes - or they won't change.

Reading this thread with interest. I lost my DH two years ago this August and it has been a real eye-opener to discover how bereaved people are treated. On the whole, I've been lucky and have had some phenomenal support from friends.

By far my worst experience was the lady I considered to be a good friend and who I'd supported through several problems of her own who literally ran away from me in the playground on several occasions. When I tackled her about her bizarre behaviour, she told me she couldn't cope if I got upset and cried. I'm still suffering the repercussions of that one as she bears a grudge for the fact that I demanded an explanation. She tells people I attacked her and it has become so bad that I can't even say good morning to her without her flying into a rage and accusing me of attacking her. Just what a grieving person needs - a petty playground feud!

I've also had people telling me I'm better off as a widow than living in an unhappy marriage, that being divorced is as bad (or worse!) than losing your husband and that losing a pet compares.

As a young(ish) widow, I've also found it very difficult dealing with unwanted advances from men. One close friend made advances when drunk one night. I had a decorater paint a rude suggestive message on my bedroom wall and another workman grab me and kiss me. I behave no differently than I behaved when DH was alive and certainly do nothing to invite attention so I can only assume I'm considered fair game now that I'm widowed.

I am beginning to feel that my own behaviour was fine compared to what has been described!

I find it easier with people I know well. When dh lost his mother and then shortly after his dad, I let him talk, cry, I held his hand, shared memories and made lots of cups of tea. Sometimes I just left him alone, when he needed me to.

But with people that you don't know so well, it is difficult to know what kind of support they may want or need.

on your behalf MummyDoIt, I can only assume that the decorator and workman in question had somehow got the fiction section of Razzle and real life confused...

Well done Zeno........ I couldnt agree with you more! I lost my eldest son Jack at two hours old and my husband nearly nine years ago. People can be very insensitive. I am an email friend of The Rev Ruth Scott. She spoke on Good Morning Sunday on Radio 2 after Ivan Cameron died and asked for Shabs and I from the bereaved mums thread to help her prepare her talk. She said in her talk that even if you dont know what to say to someone just go up and touch them on the arm and say "i dont know what to say but i want you to know im thinking of you!"

When I had a late MC all my neighbours would rush into their houses rather than speak to me. I felt like I had some sort of disease.

But I still don't know what to say to other people. I understand how it feels and that is the problem. It isn't that I don't care it is that I care too much. I am not afraid they will cry I just know I will. There are those you can cry with and those it is not the right thing.

I wanted to go to a funeral to support a friend, however I did not know the deceased, I just felt I couldn't go as I would have cried the whole way through, and people would have thought it was inappropriate.

My sister works in a hospice. She is amazing I so proud of her, and the way she supports the bereaved I don't know why we are wired so differently.

Comments have been extremely helpful, many thanks to all. I wonder why we struggle with approaching bereaved? I only feel I have a 'right' to discuss with others who have lost a loved one how they must be feeling because I have experienced similar pain. Not wishing to appear arrogant but rather as having some knowledge of the process of grieving; the utter disbelief they are gone, no more memories, the anger, the parallel universe you move in. As I said to my precious friend, we learn lessons of love throughout our lives but thankfully most of us don't have too many experiences of grief as we grow. Having the courage to walk up to someone and acknowledge their grief is the first step. As I talked to others about the passing of my father I realised there were many comparisons in grief as there are in Love, I found this alone a great help. Also a very dear elder lady whom I have a great respect for wrote me a beautiful letter briefly explaining how I shouldn't expect to 'get over' loosing my Daddy, we learn how to live with it, afterall their lives are not trivia x

When my mum died I called her phone company to cancel her line. The person on the end of the line said he would need to speak to her. I explained that she had died and so I was cancelling it, he said ok, but I need to speak directly to your mum. I spoke to his supervisor, explained she had died, was told 'i need to speak to your mum or we can't cancel her line'. If it wasn't so horrific it would have been comical. I didn't realise how hard these seemingly simple things were to do until I lost my mum.

It's hard, isn't it- Everyone is different, and comforted by different things. When I suffered a loss, someone sent me a card with these words written inside:
Death is not the extinguishing of the light, but is the blowing out of the candle because the dawn has come."
I took great comfort in these words, but from reading this thread, I think a lot wouldn't.

Yes, let's bring back mourning attire - not as a cumpulsory thing, but for the times when you need to give people a heads up.
It would be rather like being out and proud "I'm bereaved and I don't care who knows it."
Also, it would be such a relief not to have to break the news so frequently to some poor soul who has no idea they're stumbling into delicate territory. Loss would be carried more visibly and become more normal-seeming, less of a taboo.

I've often felt I'd like to wear mourning sometimes. Especially when anniversaries come round. It's a selfish urge really, to remind people that everything's not rosy in our world, and to have them think about my loved and lost people too.

I do think the training medical staff get has improved dramatically. I forget the name, but there's a charity devoted to running training for medics in supporting bereaved people. The hospital where we had to go with dd were absolutely amazing and I'm profoundly grateful that they didn't add to the trauma. The coroner's office were utterly rubbish though, and they really ought to know better.

I'm rambling now but it's good to get some of this out! I think we put up with far too much silly behaviour in the face of loss and that we should expect and demand better. The trouble in part is that at the time when the worst upset is being caused, we're in far too much of a state to challenge people on it, or to make complaints to organisations who handle it badly, so nothing changes.

Good thread. I agree about wearing mourning, that is could have its place. But DH's uncle, whose son died last year, wears a black tie every day and the rest of the family seem to perceive it as a bad sign, that he isn't moving on fast enough...