to think we should be better educated about bereavement?

[zeno]

This is prompted by SassySusan's thread below in part, but is a longtime bugbear of mine.

I think we could be doing better at supporting bereaved people. It seems that the vast majority of people have little idea of how to reasonably interact with a person who has lost someone close.

How did we get to be so bad at this? It makes me very cross that as a society we look the other way, and as a result, bereaved people have to cope with the frequently wierd behaviour of people around them on top of everything else.

What could be done to make it better? Somewhere in our education system could we spend an hour or so thinking and talking about it?

There is plenty of material out there to help. Follow this link to have a look at one leaflet. It comes up top if you google "helping bereaved parents" so it's not hard to find. If you're in the "don't know what to say" camp, why not go and read up so's you'll know for next time!

On behalf of bereaved people everywhere I'd like to shout "Come on, make an effort!" and give everyone who runs away from it a bit of a shake, and remind them that one day for sure they will be on the receiving end, smiling politely through gritted teeth.

I speak from experience here having lost my sister (age 32, suicide) and daughter (age 4, acute viral myocarditis). Feel free to skip the "I'm very sorry for your loss" - I'll assume that bit

Education can never be a bad thing, although on t'other thread there are people who absolutely hate being spoken to by people who have clearly read a book on the subject.

There's also open contradiction between what different people think you should and shouldn't do or say when faced with a bereaved person, with some people taking offence to the point of outrage over comments that other people say they would welcome or wish somebody had said to them when they were bereaved themselves.

So I'm not sure how this moves us forward. My own view is that bereavement or indeed any major life trauma such as divorce or major illness is just so utterly awful, it is simply unrealistic to think that fair to medium level aquaintances can lessen the pain in any way. In fact, some of the outrage over there is against people who may have inadvertendly suggested that there might be something the bereaved person might be able to do to lessen their pain, when quite clearly there simply isn't. And it is seen as hurtful or outrageous to say that there could be.

I think that if I were to find myself in such a situation (and I can't even imagine it, I would only know really when I got there) I'd expect my close loved ones to bear the weight of supporting me, helping me, being there for me etc etc. People I know less well - for instance work colleagues - I'd simply try to maintain politeness with rather than look for help or comfort.

I dunno. Bereaved people are just people aren't they. The day before they faced their loss, they were in the 'don't really know what to say but I'll do my best' camp with the rest of us. We aren't opposing sides, we're all just people, flawed and imperfect, dealing with life's joys and sorrows as they present themselves.

Lots of good points MZ.

Perhaps we seem, as a nation, bad at dealing with it because it happens somewhat less than it used to?

Not that fewer people die as such, but certainly there are fewer child deaths, deaths in childbirth, deaths from preventable illness and so on. So, as we go through life, we're not so likely these days to have experienced or witnessed a close or traumatic loss, and therefore are less likely to have learned through experience not to be freaked out by it all.

Is this making any sense at all?

I think this is one reason that meeting places like the bereaved mums' thread are important. I have met very few parents who have lost a child irl; here there are at least two other mums who lost a child in circs that are very similar to our loss. It fills a very human need to find understanding and comprehension.

I think that what I'd like to find more of is people making an effort to comprehend, rather than recoiling in horror. One becomes rather toxic following a dramatic loss, as though carrying some awful transmitable disease that few others can bear to look at or even think about.
One day you're ordinary, the next a freakish thing that oughtn't to be able to carry on living. Really of course you're just an ordinary person to whom something extraordinary has happened. I have to live with it all the time. It troubles me that other people so often find it impossible to live comfortably around me whilst I live with it.

Yes, I often feel I want to wear mourning just so people know that despite looking normal and being polite and smiley towards people, I feel as if I've been sliced in half.

Perhaps I'm doing the modern day equivalent by changing my Facebook photo to something that signifies grief and by using the status updates to let my friends know when things are particularly bad?

Re. the online meeting places zeno, I agree. In the first few months after my partner's death, even the registrar thought my situation (widowed during pregnancy) was unusual. She had only come across one other woman like me and this is a major registry office.

Yet through WAY and MN, I have met quite a few others who have had it happen to them and it has been a massive help to talk to them.

Ars (it it rude to call you that? )

Going off topic from the education thing somewhat, but anyway, I can't remember if I posted to you before on this but I def remember reading your posts on bereavement. I was seven months with dd2 when dd1 died. I had the good luck to find a forum from america for sudden death in childhood where there were a whole stack of people who'd been through similar. Massive relief not to be the only one to live to tell the tale.

Not at all rude, Zeno, you should have seen some of the names I thought about using...

I do remember your post, but didn't know about the myocarditis. That was what OH had - until he died I had never heard of it.

Maybe we should bring back the old ways of mourning. Not so long ago it was the norm to have the coffin at home in the "parlour" for a period before the funeral - everyone would come to "pay their respects" and sit with the bereaved family, and help them out with practical stuff. You kept all the curtains closed on your house, you wore mourning dress etc etc.

There was a ritual for bereavement that everyone adhered to. We just don't have that anymore, at least not in England. I would guess that more people die in hospital these days than they did years ago and then they stay in the chapel of rest rather than get brought home. I wonder if we just miss out on some essential steps to grieving these days.

Thanks for that link, i've bookmarked it to read tomorrow.

I remember when my DS died someone who I considered a friend who I had seen/spoken to/emailed about 4 times a week just disappeared off the radar, no texts, emails and then deleted me from her facebook all because she didn't know what to say to me. A simple "i'm sorry for your loss" would have done actually. She added me on facebook again recently but there was never any mention of it.

I volunteer for a late loss & neonatal death support website and one of the most common things that happens is people suddenly feel really isolated after a loss as a lot of people do what my 'friend' above did and they feel almost like they are being punished again and feel very lonely. Our board makes them feel they can talk about their children without being made to feel uncomfortable.

Ars is right-you do feel very unusual. When I was widowed young with a baby I contacted Cruse and they were very helpful but locally they could only come up with one woman that you could remotely call 'young' and she was 14 yrs older. I wish that WAY had been around at the time. I did eventually meet others and that was the most helpful thing. They were living it everyday, like me, and they knew what it felt like.
Death isn't as usual as it was in Victorian times. People want to help but they are embarrassed and they don't know what to say. To be fair to them, as the bereaved person, it isn't easy-what is helpful one day is entirely the wrong thing the next! There isn't 'a way to grieve' and everyone is different. Someone who is 'educated in bereavement', or has done a course, can be worse than the person who just ploughs in with nothing more than a hope to be helpful.
It is a taboo subject. People don't know what to say to DCs and yet DCs want to ask questions. I found that girls of 5/6 yrs asked me all sorts of questions-it was their parents who squirmed with embarrassment and wanted to change the subject.
I would have been one of those who didn't know what to say, but now I would always call around. I find that they appreciate it and it helps to know that they are not unusual in finding supermarkets impossible etc.
I don't know that we necessarily need to be better educated-just don't make it a taboo subject and always say something rather than cross the road to avoid! Answer DCs questions if they ask. Remember that the person doesn't really need people so much at the start-they really need them the week after the funeral and especially in the following months. There is nothing worse than everyone 'going back to normal' when your 'normal' has gone for ever. I was very grateful in my low spots for a friend just phoning and saying 'I'm just about to go swimming-do you want to come?'-this was far more helpful than saying 'do you want to come swimming next Thursday? But that was better than not asking at all!

I'm not at all sure that people would notice mourning clothes. Some people habitually wear black anyway. I took off my wedding ring in the hope that people wouldn't assume, but it didn't make any difference-they didn't notice! I put it back.

So, it's a taboo, and it would be better all round if it weren't taboo.

But how do we get from here to there if not by way of education? [Frustratedly bangs head against sofa.]

The overwhelming majority of people who have been bereaved feel that they are badly treated by many people around them. Something is very awry, and society ought to be able to figure out how to do it better, and how to pass on those skills.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm being unreasonable...

Education is a good idea-but how?

My best friend found her dad dead today.

He'd killed himself.

YANBU - we need to be better educated. I have no idea what I am supposed to do.

I feel useless and sad and angry and shocked and devastated for her and all I can think to do is to have taken some mince out of the freezer to make her a fucking Spag Bol to take round tomorrow.

All you can do is listen and be there for her. I know someone whose DS committed suicide and people avoid her. It is impossible to know what to say-there are no words. I don't see how anyone can be 'educated' -you just have to be there for the person and let them talk-or not talk. You can't make it better. There is no 'right way' to help.

Ladyanon, thinking of your friend today. Taking spag bol round is well up on the list of good things to do.

There is an organisation called SOBS, survivors of bereavement by suicide. Their helpline is marvellous, staffed by people who have experience of a loss to suicide. Find the number and give it to your friend on a post-it to stick in her purse maybe?

Amazingly, 75% more people die each year from suicide than from road deaths, and 1 in 5 people has known someone who killed themselves. So much more common than it seems because of the taboos surrounding talking about it.