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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to advise my friend to stop breastfeeding ?

49 replies

FourLittleDucks · 22/06/2010 10:02

Sorry - posted in AIBU so that get lots of replies!

Situation - friend has 2wk old DS2 and is breastfeeding him (bottle fed DS1). He was 10lb 8oz at birth and a big hungry baby and she doesn't feel like she has enough to give him.

What advice can I give her ?
He seems to be having good days (3hrs b/w feeds) then days like yesterday where he feeds all day. Last night she topped him up with formula and he became much more settled.

If she gives the occasional bottle of formula, will that wreck her supply ?

She is on the verge of giving up and so I'm hoping for some positive stories to encourage her !

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 22/06/2010 10:04

Tell her this is what two week old babies do. It will be totally different to her experience of bottlefeeding.

And yes, an occasional bottle of formula at this early stage will do her supply no favours at all. She has to let the baby suck and suck as it's doing it to stimulate her supply. There's a really good leaflet - I'll find it - back in a minute

Tombliboob · 22/06/2010 10:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TartyMcFarty · 22/06/2010 10:07

Why on earth have you used this title if you're after positive stories to encourage her?

Longtalljosie · 22/06/2010 10:07

Ah there you are

It's meant for grandparents but discusses the difference between formula feeding and breastfeeding so may be helpful

ShowOfHands · 22/06/2010 10:09

Direct her to the kellymom website.

The baby's size makes no difference. Bfeeding works on supply and demand and the way to ensure an optimum supply is to allow the baby to suckle as it wants/needs to. The days of frequent feeding are growth spurts usually and the milk will increase if she allows him to feed as he needs to.

Bfing is a very clever process, relying on clever babies to tell their mother's bodies what they need.

Perhaps suggest to her that she finds other ways of facilitating a decent bfing relationship. Lots of help with other stuff and freeing up time to bfeed bfeed bfeed.

A sling is good if she has a bigger child too as it frees her up to play. Feeding lying down is a godsend and lots of lovely friends to help out are good too.

dorisbonkers · 22/06/2010 10:09

There was one day where I fed 18 hours out of 24. Actually, because I too had supply concerns (I had a little un) I was prepared to feed all the time and so the first 6 months were essentially a babymoon. It helped I could feed in a wrap walking about and feed lying down.

Some babies just need or more to the point, want, to be on the breast frequently and for long. I have no idea where this '3 hour' distance between feeds comes from.

I wish the idea that large babies can't survive on breastfeeding alone, or that small babies are withering away (barring of course supply and latch concerns) on breastfeeding would come out of the modern day lexicon of feeding.

Mishy1234 · 22/06/2010 10:11

I would definitely post this in the breastfeeding/bottle feeding forum, as there are some experts (Ticktock comes to mind) who seem to look there and provide advice on a regular basis.

From a totally non-expert viewpoint, I think the pattern of feeding which your friend's baby is showing is totally normal for his age. He's in the process of building up his supply atm and there are also regular growth spurts to deal with, so constant (or near constant) nursing is quite usual.

As for topping up with formula, I don't think it's advisable at this early stage as it can interrupt the supply/demand cycle.

I would advise your friend to call a breastfeeding helpline (NCT or LL League) for advice. Also, there are various breastfeeding groups around which her MW/HV should be able to let her know about.

I would continue to support her and offer help where you can. Entertaining her DS1, shopping or even going round with some biscuits will give her a boost. I always send some biscuits/brownies to new Mums (bf or not). There are quite a few different companies who do that kind of thing now, or you could bake some yourself.

Hope things calm down for her soon.

dorisbonkers · 22/06/2010 10:12

If you wanted a positive story I'd say that I'm still doing feeding on demand 20 months later. It's not all plain sailing and it's pushed me to the edge of what I'm capable of patience wise/sleep wise/touch overload wise but I'm very glad I didn't cave when I had a wobble and carried on.

And my daughter's pleased as bloody punch. She loves it. Calms her down, gets her to sleep and she told me she likes the taste very much.

jeee · 22/06/2010 10:13

I'm in what seems to be a Mumsnet minority (although it is common amongst people I know in RL). I mixed fed - not for a couple of weeks but for months. Giving an evening bottle gave me a break, and for my first two DC - both designated as 'failing to thrive' - it meant that I actually kept going with the breast feeding. If your friend is mixed feeding, she's still breast-feeding, and that's still going to give most of the benefits. FF is NOT inevitable just because formula is used sometimes.

MathsMadMummy · 22/06/2010 10:15

too early for a bottle really if she can possibly carry on. 2wk olds just want to BF constantly, it's normal! the more she BFs the better her supply will be. sounds like what she needs is confidence in her own body. this whole 'you don't have enough milk' thing really annoys me - it is very rarely true.

her body will provide what baby needs, but for her own sake she does need to eat and drink plenty.

DS was 11lb 14oz at birth - admittedly he did have FF topups after each feed for 2wks (Dr told me to because of jaundice. didn't want to though) - but at 14 days old we dropped it and he's fine, still BFing at nearly 10 months

oh and one thing we are always supposed to tell new mums is skin to skin! calms baby and mother

Original poster
FourLittleDucks · 22/06/2010 10:16

Yes, sorry for the title - I do want her to breastfeed, partly because I know she wants to - but its hard to know what to say as my own experience was very straightforward

Thanks for all the posts -

OP posts:
MathsMadMummy · 22/06/2010 10:18

also another really important thing - if baby does have a bottle, it's actually better not to do it in the night - night time breastmilk is of the best quality! I think it's because you're more rested? anyway it helps baby grow more or something like that.

I think the general advice is wait 6 weeks if possible before introducing a bottle

OrmRenewed · 22/06/2010 10:21

I was on exactly that position OP. Exactly! And yes I did top up with formula because I was desperate. I know it's not advised but at the time I was at the end of my rope and suffering from baby blues in spades. As it happens it didn't affect my supply and I carried on bfing for 18m.

If it's a choice between giving the odd bottle enabling her to carry on bfing, or sticking to the rules to the extent that she gives up in despair, I know what I would advise.

AlCrowley · 22/06/2010 10:22

Feeding constantly at 2 weeks is normal. A baby's tummy is only the size of a walnut and needs refilling regularly as it can't hold much.

Remind her that she can feed from booth boobs rather than just one per feed. When DD was that little she was going back and forth between breast 5 or 6 times a feed! It's called switch feeding and actually helps up supply and settle baby as the milk comes faster.

Also, makes sure she knows that boobs are never, ever empty. They make milk as the baby suckles so even if it's a slow flow, there will always be milk coming.

The first few weeks, the 3 month growth spurt and the 4 month regression are all tough times but breastfeeding is so rewarding and so good for the baby.

Support her. Don't tell her to quit!

TartyMcFarty · 22/06/2010 10:27

I agree with Orm. She has to take the approach for her that will help her in the long run. If that means the occasional FF to allow her to get some sleep, then that's the best thing for her (worked form me, and I think DD has only ever had 3 or 4 bottles of formula - now 16 weeks). The other thing that helped was expressing (I did so from day 3). DD has a bottle of breastmilk every evening with her dad. It helps to get a quantity in her belly in one go.

I would also recommend nipple shields if there are any problems with latching. I used them for one day and they sorted the problem and brought me back from the point at which I thought I'd have to give up.

I'm strongly of the opinion that you should trust your own judgement and adapt BFing to your own and baby's needs.

kodokan · 22/06/2010 10:29

Yep - day or two of pretty much feeding to up supply, then he'll drop into a pattern of going longer between feeds. Perfectly normal, just ride it out for a day or so with resting as much as poss and keeping up with lots of fluids and healthy snacks herself.

porcamiseria · 22/06/2010 10:29

yup. thats what its like, HARD WORK. But its not forever so advise her to keep-on feeding , I remember calculating that one day I BF every hour!!!! I am not saying to NOT top up, up to her. But to be feeding constantly well thats BF a 2 week old for you, its very very normal

christ, I have this all to come. But second time around I know there will be an end in sight!

zam72 · 22/06/2010 10:31

I topped up with formula with both mine for various reasons. DS1 I did eventually just BF without top ups until 5 months (could've continued longer, but had to take medication so stopped then)...don't remember it being all that big a deal making the switch either. But DS2 it went the other way and I eventually FF from 10 weeks.

From my very limited experience, it sounds like your friend's baby is just doing what babies do - they do through growth spurts or are establishing the supply or just want some comfort - and that should settle down.

I would also say that I found my Breastfeeding clinic at my hospital (but they're at various locations) excellent. Very, very good. I was absolutely ready to give up with DS2 at 10 days but they gave me confidence and support to carry on - and not in any sort of judgemental or pressurised way at all. They were lovely. I thought they'd be rubbish and same old blah blah blah, but I was really, really impressed with them and so glad I went. Maybe she should check them out...

But all that said....I felt an awful lot of pressure to BF (mostly self-imposed) - felt like the be all and end all and that I was failing somehow that it didn't come naturally. Sometimes you need support. Sometimes you need to perservere. Explore all avenues...but really in the end 'happy mum, happy baby' be that BF, FF or mixed fed.

slushy06 · 22/06/2010 10:32

Yep agree with others totallt normal and natures way IMO of making women sit down and rest.

OrmRenewed · 22/06/2010 10:34

First time round I was desperate. I had such pain, DS#1 cried and cried for feeding - I used to sleep with him latched on all night. Co-sleeping was the only way I coped! I tried nipple shields (pita), I tried lanisoh (worse than useless) and I found this wonderful stuff called Rotasept which dulled the pain completely. Again, that is something that midwives no longer recommend but hell, who cares, I got there. I think that if you accept that you are in it for the long haul it isn't so important how you get the journey started iyswim.

sudoku · 22/06/2010 10:37

If you want to encourage your friend to continue BF, tell her that by 6 weeks a BF pattern is usually established! Before that babies eat all the time...

mollycuddles · 22/06/2010 10:38

Her bf pattern is normal and exactly the same as mine. On Saturday DD2 fed every 3 hours. On Sunday she had no more than a couple of 30 minute naps and a few 5 minute breaks from the nipple from 7am to midnight. But I know that in just a few more weeks it'll settle down and all the convenience of bf will be worth the hassle now, never mind the health benefits to us both.

mumeeee · 22/06/2010 10:48

Tell her that is normal for 2 week old breastfed babies. Topping him up with formula want help in the long run and will actually interfere with her supply.

Downdog · 22/06/2010 10:50

Is he weeing?
Is he pooing?
Is he gaining weight?
If yes, then I'd say all is well.

fishie · 22/06/2010 11:01

fourlittleducks it might be better to consider a 'good' day to be one where he feeds more rather than less frequently.

kellymom is brilliant on what is customary. a lot of feeding in early days will stimulate her supply and make sure there is plenty of milk, it'll all settle down soon.