to advise my friend to stop breastfeeding ?

[FourLittleDucks]

Sorry - posted in AIBU so that get lots of replies!

Situation - friend has 2wk old DS2 and is breastfeeding him (bottle fed DS1). He was 10lb 8oz at birth and a big hungry baby and she doesn't feel like she has enough to give him.

What advice can I give her ?
He seems to be having good days (3hrs b/w feeds) then days like yesterday where he feeds all day. Last night she topped him up with formula and he became much more settled.

If she gives the occasional bottle of formula, will that wreck her supply ?

She is on the verge of giving up and so I'm hoping for some positive stories to encourage her !

Its totally normal. Topping up with formula isn't a good idea - it will affect her supply. And he may seem more settled but he is just trying to digest the formula. He needs to be on the breast to stimulate more milk.

OP, your friends DS sounds as though he is doing completely fine. Can only speak from personal experience, but I BF my DD for 27mth. In the early stages, my DD cluster fed (and I can also distinctly remember feeding her for around 18hrs in a 24hr period), but all was perfectly fine and the feeding will eventually settle down. His increase in feeding could be down to a growth spurt, plus the warm weather is likely to be making him more thirsty.

Kellymom is a good website and Laleche also has some good information. IMO, introducing a FF top-up will only interfere with her milk supply and cause further problems down the line.

If she is really desperate and want to keep BF, why not giving the breast for 10 min each side and then top it up. i.e. breast still stimulated. I know it is against the BF milk mafia advice. But it is better to continue BF with the help of FF than to stop. If she has no help at all (soembody must do the cleaning, help with school run, cooking...), does it against familly belief, and has already a DC, she must do what she think is right for her and her familly.
As it has been said it is normal for 2 weeks old baby to BF all the time.
I top up my DD2 at the beggining, and was able to stop FF and EBF (in the end I had to stop for different reasons but not because my supply was running out). with DD1 I didn't want to stop and nobody advise me on FF, so my milk just ran out. If I knew about the stimulating the breast first and then top up, it would probably not have happenned

DS2 was pretty much permanently attached till 8weeks (like feeds every 20 mins or so) then the veil lifted and it got easier. On hot days though (like today) he is wanting lots of little drinks.

Being big (or small) makes no difference to breastfeeding, the body knows how to look after them.

If she continues topping up for the evening feed, her body will assume she doesn't need the milk for then and not produce it, when really the whole point of evening cluster feeding in the early weeks is to up the supply for evenings later on.

Looking back over the past two years and having my baby in isolation abroad, with no friends or family, no classes and having her early (preeclampsia), so not having had the time to read up on breastfeeding (just assuming you applied their gaping maw to the general area) I can honestly say that the day-by-day dawning realisation of what feeding a baby (well, my 1-2 hourly feeding baby) involved came as the biggest shock of my life. And I've been around a bit, and seen a few things.

Nothing prepared me physically or mentally.

I'm sorry that your friend is struggling with this stage. But she can hang in there and it will get better and she'll begin to feel in control and then proud of the obstacles she's overcome.

mamaloco, terms like bf "Mafia" are uncalled for and offensive.

FLD, I would advise your friend to try not to top up if she can, particularly when she is still establishing a supply. Also point out that the house can wait and that you can entertain a toddler at the same time with a book and a cuddle while baby is being bf.

But if she does find herself topping up, still tell her she is doing great and every drop of breastmilk counts.

yabu to advise her to stop bfing- much better to do a bit of research into how bfing actually works and what she can expect over the next few months.

Sorry chipmonkey, I was still upset by some of the threads on BF and weaning where some mums are really hurtful and dismissive of people trying their best even if for them it is not the best IYSWIM. And some people I know in RL too. Shouldn't post when upset or reread
FLD your freind probably need more support and to know what to expect, I completely agree with dorisbonkers same experience but my abroad was the UK, it is a shock to the system. Can you find some local support group for her locally, she probably don't have the time to do it herself?

Argghhh! -doesn't- sorry!

Early days are very difficult when breastfeeding, but it doesn't mean your friend can't do it. It took 6 weeks for me to get established feeding DS (and during that time it was very painful and a nightmare in many ways, and I also had what in my oppinion was terrible advice but I won't go into that now).

Like jeee, in the end I mix fed, but DS was failing to thrive and I had to do something. I did however, manage to continue breastfeeding until he was 14 months old. He is now a very happy and healthy 2 year old.

My point is that breastfeeding is possible on difficult beginnings and there is no reason to give up if you don't want to.

I topped up with formula from 2 weeks with DD - between me, health professionals and DD we'd made a complete hash of it. It's not ideal, but we survived, and it got much easier after about 4 weeks - in the end I bf with a bit of FF through to 8 months, and I look back on the experience as a success.

Like your friend I had slightly low supply and a slightly incompetent feeder and just wasn't prepared for spending 8 hours a day feeding - the best thing you can do is offer her the support she needs to do that - enable her to spend the whole day on the sofa with pints of lemon squash and a box set of SATC.

Yes, at this stage bottle of formula will reduce her supply, feeding all day means he's having growth spurt.

Feeding all day will increase her supply so she has more tomorrow, so he'll be back him his 3 hourly routine.

Giving a bottle will reduce her supply so he'll be hungry tomorrow. Then she'll either have to feed all day tomorrow (to stimulate supply) or give him a bottle tomorrow.

Best advice is to eat well rest well, and expect a growth spurt feed all day scenario roughtly once every 4 weeks. Giving a bottle of formula at this stage is the surest day to running out of milk.

DD fed (bf) every two hours during the day until she was 6 months old and she was a tiny baby (2nd percentile).

Completely normal, encourage her to continue. There were times when I wanted to give up as all I seemed to be doing was feeding all day but it was all worth it and I am so glad that I continued. She's 10months now an only has three feeds a day and I actually miss those days

Sorry, quick hijack

Longtalljosie like the leaflet. Where can I get other 'for grandpaprents' leaflets?

I agree with alot of other people. 2 week old babies feed alot. To go 3 hrs between feeds (even if only some days) is really good!
My dd is 8 weeks and i really struggled with feeding her to begin with. She was great, always latched on and fed well but i really struggled with being so needed IYSWIM. I was so tired all the time and just wanted to stop. I even went and bought bottles and formula.
Tell her that everyone says it and its hard to believe but it does get easier, just one day i realised i wasn't getting so stressed about it and since then it has been great. I love that i can just leave the house, or stay out longer than planned without having to take any bottles.
The main thing is seeing how much dd loves it, the look on her little face when she starts feeding is priceless and how calm and content she gets is lovely.
Tell your friend to concentrate on her ds, to see how much he loves the closeness to his mum.

It's been said here and elsewhere before, but the idea that a bigger baby needs more than breastmilk is a myth, and a harmful one. And those with smaller babies get the same thing; your baby is so small, it must need more calories, give it formula. So only people like my daughter, who was and is 50%ile for everything, are recommended for ebf!

Two weeks is hard, but it gets better and soon. If he's feeding all the time, and pooing and weeing regularly, then she's doing brilliantly.

You can support her by (if you're nearby) going over there with a basket of snacks and water, getting her and the baby set up on the couch with a remote and the food in easy reach, and taking her toddler out for a few hours running around the park. That's the sort of thing she needs. I bet her baby is thriving.

Funkycherry - that's the only one I know of...

Most people I know want to give up at this point. It's really hard. Then there's the 6-8 week crisis. After that, it seems to get easier and by 12 weeks you're really grateful that you carried on and feeding your child is easy complared to formula feeding.

As othters are saying, needs support from someone who has been there (and professionals) and lots of practical help with the toddler.

I think it's totally up to her and no one should be saying to her oh you should stop or oh you should continue.

Lets face it everyones life is different, people here can not really say anything about one aspect of someones domestic life without full knowledge of the rest of it.

Personally I think it's better to spend quality time playing with a baby and be happy then to sit there worrying about something and being knackered, I'm sure they can pick up on peoples mood anyway.

If it was my friend I would just support them and make it clear that it is her choice and hers alone and she shouldn't feel under any pressure to do something if she feels she really can't cope.

If your friend does want to carry on breastfeeding, perhaps you could put her in touch with some local real-life support or give her the number of the National Breastfeeding helpline (0300 100 0212).

Lots of mums worry about their milk supply and many mums who give up breastfeeding do wish that they had carried on for longer. Giving formula at an early stage is likely to decrease milk supply and can exacerbate the 'problem'. It's totally normal for young babies to want to feed all the time and you can perhaps support your friend by bringing her lots of cups of tea and offering to help with her housework! Of course, it's important that you support your friend whatever she decides to do about feeding - as somebody else has said here, new motherhood can feel a bit like being hit by a bus...

"It's been said here and elsewhere before, but the idea that a bigger baby needs more than breastmilk is a myth, and a harmful one. "

I got this from a midwife at the hospital when I had DD (she was 9lb 9oz). This midwife drifted past us on her first night about 3am, noted that I was feeding - again, been on and off all night - and said that if she didn't stop feeding soon, she'd have to go for blood sugar tests to make sure she was being adequately nourished - 'you have to watch it with those big babies and not being able to keep up with their feeding needs'.

Luckily DD was my second, so I smiled politely and utterly ignored her. FFS, she was 14 hours old at the time! Utter rubbish. (In fact, I didn't see that midwife again during my stay, and briefly thought that I'd hallucinated it because it was such a farfetched thing to say.)

DD turned out to be a super efficient feeder and could down a complete breastfeed in 15 mins, unlike DS who despite his perfect 50th percentile weight of 7lb 14oz was one of those 'sport sucking' babies that liked to drag it out for over an hour.

Kodokan, my experience was exactly the same. My daughter was 7lbs 10oz and fed ALL THE TIME. Latch wasn't fab, but even when I'd sorted that, she still fed a LOT. DS was 10lbs and fed every three hours for 10 mins on each side. Bit embarrassing really as I am a bf counsellor and it looked like I was feeding ds to a routine, but I wasn't, he was just that kind of baby!

OP if he is peeing and pooing and gaining some weight, she has nothing to worry about. It is normal for some babies to be really, really frequent feeders in the early days.