to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

Oi! South Wales Welsh IS the proper welsh omnishambles!!

Hulababy - again Welsh might be quite unique in this respect. If your kids are learning 'proper' welsh at school the idea of bad habits and poor pronunciation is less of a worry as they tend to pick up the correct form. I speak Welsh to mine despite not being fluent - I stick to what I am very comfortable with and never correct the kids pronunciation. In fact my 5yo will very happily correct mine! Thing is with Welsh, there's about a million different ways of pronouncing things. The Welsh that my DD is learning is actually slightly different to the Welsh that people speak in the community anyway. She'll have to get used to hearing welsh in many different forms as she grows up!

[sigh]

South Wales is 'proper Welsh' omnishambles.

hairytriangle - not sure if it was my post you were responding to - I don't know about the Welsh context, but census returns in Ireland clearly state that there are no monoglot speakers of Irish (especially noteworthy because people tend to overestimate their fluency on census returns). That's not to say at all (and I've met some of them) that there aren't Irish speakers who are more comfortable speaking Irish, and feel more able to express themselves in it.

It's a very complex issue - and a politically sensitive one in a context where vast amounts of money put into upholding Ireland's status as a nation where English is the second language have utterly failed to arrest the decline of numbers speaking Irish on a quotidian basis - despite the recent resurgence of interest in gaelscoileanna in urban areas (many suspect other motives there, though). For example, nearly 20% of students taking the Leaving Cert now seek exemption from compulsory Irish here

MrsGravy I know, you just wouldnt think so if you believed everyone in Aber for example...

Another thing I have thought of is the loss of that perpetuation of the individual way in which your dh expresses himself in English - we all pick up things from our parents - their idiosyncratic ways of talking and expressions - subtle but interesting. We'd only know about it when someone says - you sound just like your father. Maybe thats what the gps subconsciously worry about. That break of a familial line of culture.

TDYA

YANBU!!

Hulababy well, I know loads of kids who are spoken to in Welsh by people who have learned (including me)- usually a parent who has learned so that Welsh can be the first language at home, and the kids have benefited from it (it was just a general comment, not a scientifically based one!)

I try to see all points of view.

But I'm truly, truly baffled as to the way this thread has turned out. It's quite bizarre - the focus on my DH is weird! I mean that in an 'I didn't expect that' kind of way.

I'm also shocked about the level of ignorance about (a) Welsh and (b) bilingualism. I mean, really!

Let's recap: I'm speaking my own language with my DS. It happens to be a minority language. I'm not 'teaching' him English (any of you sit down to carefully teach your DCs English? Nope - that's not how children acquire language). I'm not denying him the opportunity to learn English or to become bilingual.
My PILs live 250 miles away, don't speak a word of my language, and think it's pointless and already dead.

I am being accused of denying my DS the opportunity of being bilingual: nope, I'm not.
I'm being accused of disadvantaging him in the future: nope, and that's somewhat offensive because it implies that English is 'better', 'superior', and also that he won't learn properly and it will make him slower at University. (Think: if I was African, in Africa, speaking a minority language, saying that it's inferior/will hold me back/will make me slow would be racist. The natives with their pathetic language, they're all thickies.)
And the point scoring business? That's truly offensive and is coming from some sort of weird and sick background - how on earth can speaking my own language with my own child be point scoring? He will learn English and will be able to chat with his GPs, he just can't right now. (Give him a year, tops.)

There have been some very good posts on here. But some of the others have truly shocked me.

P.s. I can see that inlaws could feel excluded. But their refusal to take anything on board (I think it's known as narrow mindedness in some circles) doesn't make their own lives easier. If I talk about Welsh culture, they snigger and PIL makes dreadful, dreadful comments of the variety 'natives thick as sh!t, don't know any better'. I have offered them leaflets (!) on bilingualism, to reassure them that DS will be properly bilingual, and speak English well; I have flawless English and a PhD from Oxford, where you study in English. But they laugh at me and say my language is dead. That really, really hurts. And then they complain, and make truly ignorant comments.

Another point in support of the OP - that dyslexic English cousin of mine, who lived in Wales from age 2 or 3, learned English at home and fluent Welsh at school went on to a Russell Group University and took a BSc. He got a First.

The focus is on your dh because he's the native English speaker who isn't speaking his language to his ds.

If it was the other way about and you spoke only English in the home in spite of being a Welsh speaker I'd wonder why you didn't share the Welsh language with your ds.

I wouldn't expect you to speak English to your ds as your first language is Welsh but I do find it odd that your dh doesn't want to speak his native language with his child. Bilingualism from the start is always preferable imho.

It is incredibly rude of your in laws to refer to Welsh as a 'dead' and 'pointless' language. I'd certainly have words about that.

I don't think any of this implies that English is better or superior, just much more widely used and therefore more useful e.g. at university.

Like Mandarin is more useful than English, presumably?

It's true, English is becoming rapidly outdated!

Well Mandarin is more commonly used but English is more widely used.

I don't think it matters if Welsh or English is more useful,their respective usefulness varies depending on one's situation and location but no matter how rare or common one's parent's native languages are I think it's preferable to learn both from a young age.

I am a learner and I had this attitude from my own mother.
I was shocked tbh as my db had already married a french woman and was bringing up his dcs bilingually and she was quite proud of that.
But, she didn't get it with Welsh.
She couldn't understand why I would want to only speak welsh to my babies.
I think a lot of this kind of racism is ignorance tbh. People of that generation maybe thinking why learn welsh when you can perfectly get along in english iyswim.
Crazy I know, it has taken some time but she is totally on board now and realises the importance of speaking the language now.

The only thing I would say is,distance yourself from the inlaws until they are polite to you.
It's unnaceptable to be so disrespectful and rude to you.

I think your parents in law are entitled to their opinion. It's not rude simply to disagree with someone and their standpoint is not completely illogical. After all, they can converse with 78 million people with Nepalese but only 611,000 with Welsh!

The alternative is that they hide their true feelings on the subject just to be polite. As you chose to bring up your child so he cannot talk with his grandparents (although you did have a choice), you have not extended a great deal of sensitivity towards their feelings, so I think you are expecting a great deal in return.

But one of those 611,000 is their grandson. Hardly more logical to learn Nepalese.

Yes your PILS are rude and disrespectful.
Yes, they could make an effort to learn some Welsh, but older people can get stuck in their ways and/or find learning a new language daunting.
Yes you are rightly proud of your heritage.

But have you considered that the PILs may perceive that you are trying to keep their grandchild out of their life via a linguistic barrier?

If your DS didn't have English grandparents, then it would be entirely reasonable not to speak English with him at home in his early years.

And yes, your DC will learn English eventually, but in the meantime he will be denied communication with his grandparents for a certain period in these very formative years.

I agree with you he will just pick up English anyway.why should you bother speaking to him in English when Welsh is your language? I live probably near Helyg,maybe near you,and my dd is at a Welsh speaking primary,and although I only speak a little Welsh and DH none at all,she is picking it up pretty quickly.I would say there are no worries that your child will be unable to speak English when he is older,and so this is only an issue for a short time.Your PILs speak to him in English,he will pick it up from them and communicate with them in his own way and in his own time.(and yes they should try and speak at least some Welsh)

i think your Dh should speak to your son in his own first language. the fact that he is " near fluent" is not the same as it being his mother tongue - your DH will still have an " accent" and will not know things like nursery rhymes etc in Welsh.It is better for your son to grow up fully bi-lingual rather than learning a second langauage at nursery

I'm surprised that you are surprised that quite a few folk don't agree with you. I know many couples who speak different languages. Nearly all speak to the children in their native tongue, so children tend to grow up truly bilingual. You did say yourself that english doesn't come as 'naturally' to you as your native tongue. Most posters have no problem with you speaking only in Welsh with your child, what seems strange that your DH won't speak his native tongue with DC and that this is understandably causing concerns with the PILs. Is it true that you won't let them take DC out as he doesn't understand/speak english - you seem to be dodging this repeated question? I totally support you wanting him to have Welsh as his mother tongue/ but don't see why he can't learn english from DH. It does seem you are trying to make a point and thumbing your nose at your PIL's - seems obvious you don't have a great relationship with them.

I go with scanty until the last sentence. I don't think you are deliberatly "thumbing your nose" at your PILS. I do think it's perfectly reasonable for you to speak only Welsh to your DC though-it's your first language FHS! My best friend is married to a man from Ghana, and she will speak only English to DC when they have them, and her DH will speak only...um, whatever he speaks. For some reason the name of the language is escaping me right now.

Incidentally, how do you say hello and thank you in Welsh? I'd love to know!

Also curious as to what language you use when visiting or being visited by PIL's. Politness would dictate english as they don't speak Welsh but then that would disclude (as that a word?) DS.