to be angry at my sister who is STILL smoking in her 2nd pregnancy despite her 1st baby being born early with breathing problems and low weight?

[ilikeyoursleeves]

I saw my sister today and despite her saying she would give up this time she is still smoking heavily whilst pregnant (currently around 5 months). As the title says, her DD was in SCBU for a few days after birth with breathing problems and low weight. OK we will never know if her smoking heavily throughout that pregnancy was a causal factor in this, but it certainly wouldn't have helped. Sister was worried it was caused by her smoking and I never suggested it was to her as she was obviously going through a tough time after the birth.

But you would think she would therefore rethink the fags while pregnant thing now, but no she is still puffing away quite the thing. I asked her today if she was going to give up (or at least try, I said I knew how hard it is etc) but all she said was 'it's fine, I had my 20 week scan and his lungs are fine, it won't affect the baby'.

WTF! I mean, even the thought of a Dr having to check an unborn babies lungs would be enough to shock me into stopping! Not that I even think they can tell anything by looking at lungs on a scan, I think she is just telling herself that to make herself feel better.

I know some will say 'her body, her choice' but it's not just her body is it?

She's an idiot and she's deluding herself if she thinks it won't harm her baby.

And this:

"A friend was told by her GP not to beat herself up over her 2 -5 cigarettes per day as the stress would prob do her more harm than the cigarettes themselves. " is also bollocks. I don't know a single health professional nowadays who would advise a pregnant woman to keep smoking, even a few a day. Unfortunately smokers, pregnant or not, are very good at making excuses to continue smoking and hear what they want to hear.

But hey if she wants her baby's blood supply to contain ammonia, arsenic, hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide, benzene, cadmium, formaldehyde and acetone tell her to knock herself out.

winnybella, i understand that, but every mother would surely TRY for the sake of their child and ive met mothers who didnt even try
my mother and my DC's act like someone just walked into the room and shat everywhere if they walk past/are exposed to a smoker [pregnant or not]
she has taught them to do it, now me! the shame/pride is confusing for my rational/irrational soul.

Sidge- no, actually what you're saying is not true wrt the doctors and smoking in pg.

I have been told by doctors and midwives that if I smoke no more than five a day it's not a problem. And that was not because I started to whinge how hard it will be for me to quit- they said it out of their own volition iyswim.
So whatever you think about it, there seems to be a consensus that minimal amount of smoking is not harmful. They were v.good, experienced gynecologists, too, not your run-of -the mill GPs. Quite a few of my friends heard the same thing.

Obviously, better not to smoke at all, I guess, but let's not get too dramatic about it.

Big difference, too, between 3 cigarettes and 2 packs.

OP, do you think maybe they stopped somewhere on the way to smoke, as opposed to having done it in the car with dd?

winnybella, i dont really get the doctors logic now we all know its bad to smoke, so how can doctors say that 5 a day is no problem? and 5 a day is still a lot [as opposed to non smokers]
im confused.

BritFish- no, that's good for your DCs. And yes, I think if someone doesn't even try to cut down, then I would get judgy as well. I got a 'green light ' for a few a day, but I still tried to reduce it to 1 or 2 most days.
We all know (pg or not) that it's not a very smart thing to do. I do want to quit, I really do and I hope one day I'll be able to look back on my smoking years and wonder why did I do it. Well, I do wonder, every day.

Winnybella I don't know when and where you were told that smoking is ok when pregnant but it is most definitely not true.

Any smoking is harmful, whether one or twenty cigarettes a day. Obviously the more you smoke the greater the harm as the exposure is increased, but even one cigarette contains thousands of harmful chemicals, about 250 of which are known carcinogens. And human lungs are not designed to inhale burning matter.

BritFish, so am I. I imagine that perhaps in the calculation of risk coming from pollution, pesticides on food etc, few cigarettes are not a big deal? Of course, smoking during pg adds to all the toxins that we and by extension the foetus is exposed to, so no, it's not great. I guess that it's not a big factor enough for the doctors to worry about? I don't know. A bit like no doctor will tell you you're a horrible mother if you feed your kids a non-organic food and by that you expose them to numerous carcinogenic toxins every day?
I can ask my new gynecologist! Mind you, she's French, though

The comparison between exposing a foetus whose lungs are still developing to killer toxins and feeding a child non-organic food is absurd, winnybella.

Sidge- I was told that by two doctors, one in NYC, one in Paris plus midwives. Last time was 2 years ago.

Yes, I know that cigarettes contain a lot of harmful substances. I was actually just saying what the doctors said (v.good ones,I to their private offices, but they both worked for big hospitals as well, one for Lennox Hill in NYC and the other for a hospital in Paris, forgot the name). Midwives were in Hopital St.Antoine, very good one, in Paris.

LOL winny well if she's French she'll probably prescribe you a pack of Gauloise and a bottle of Sancerre

Joking aside if you are in France maybe it's a cultural thing? I know that the NHS here in the UK is spending millions on smoking cessation and smoking is definitely less socially acceptable than it used to be. Is it the same in France, or is the tide turning there?

x-posted there with you.

Sir BoobAloot- yeas, I though it might not come out v.well- i only was trying, not very articulately evidently, to figure out the logic of doctor's thinking.

Of course it's not the same (and on so many levels), but you do have to admit that pesticides are not very good for people, either. All doctors agree on that.

YANBU. Your sister is an idiot. Sorry.

When I was pg with DD1 (I was 22 and it was very unplanned), I did my best to stop smoking but just couldn't quite let go. I was smoking perhaps half a roll up a couple of times a week, so hardly at all, I guess it was like a security blanket.

Then when I gave birth, the midwife came and asked me if I was a smoker. I told her how much I had smoked whilst pg and she looked at me like I was bullshitting her and told me that my placenta was very gritty, which occurs with heavy smokers. I felt awful as I had kidded myself that the tiny amount that I smoked wouldn't have mattered, but it obviously did. DD was fine btw, but as soon as she was born I was mega protective of her and although I carried on smoking (at the pre pregnancy rate), I would NEVER smoke around her or in the house or allow anyone else to do so.

Now I am pg with DD2 (33 weeks today). I gave up smoking as soon as I found out. I couldn't rationalise never smoking around DD1 yet subjecting my unborn baby to smoke. Of course it wasn't easy, and some days I could kill for a fag but I am so pleased that I stopped and I have no intention of starting again. Hopefully DD1 who is 5 will forget me ever being a smoker and DD2 will never know me as a smoker. I feel loads better for it and can't believe I spent 15 years of my life with such a disgusting habit.

No I doubt they stopped somewhere for a fag, they will have smoked in the car. She really doesn't give a shit because when I offered her my old breastpump for this baby (she didn't BF DD) she said 'No I won't try to BF because I smoke don't I?'.

No intentions of giving up.

And I agree entirely that she is a selfish cow- I did say today after she was so blase about it, despite me empathising how hard it is to give up (I used to smoke years ago), that she is poisoning her unborn child but she just ignored me.

Sidge, no, actually smoke is not allowed anymore in enclosed spaces, so no more cafe au lait and a Marlboro inside a cafe on the cold winter morning! I think that doctors are quite strict-but for example no one raised an eyebrow about occasional small glass of wine I had- they wanted to know if I drunk vodka by a glassful (I kid you not).

I think it's becoming less acceptable to smoke ie I think I see less people smoking and also they are becoming more considerate, so if you're with a child outside a cafe with the tables touching each other, they might get up and walk a few steps away to smoke. Though, tbh, no, that only happened a few times...

To be honest I was cynical about my friend's doctor's claim, but I'm not the health professional. Like I said, I gave up my paltry 'social smoker' status before we started TTC but I know it isn't that easy for everyone so I try not to judge.

OP, I think the consensus is that it's better to smke and bf than ff, you could tell her to google Kellymom or whatever the name of that site is...although I'm not sure if it's still true if you smoke lots/ just before the feeding etc.

jendaisy- congratulations on quitting!

I think it's fucking ridiculous how some women won't even TRY to give up smoking while pregnant! I don't get it. Surely when that line appears on the stick that should be the moment you have your last cigarette, no?

I don't agree that having 5 cigarettes while pregnant is no worse than exposing the baby to everyday pollutants. Of course it's worse! We often can't control dangers that we are daily exposed to (unless we never left the house or wore a mask) but to knowingly do something that is harming a foetus... the chemicals cross the placenta so the baby smokes with you!

She is a selfish cow and she's also lying or misinformed about the scan. They cannot check lung development on a scan, I know as one of my baby's lungs were at serious risk of not developing due to pregnancy complications and I was told they simply wouldn't know until baby was born, a scan couldn't say anything about lung development.

I recently found out my brother's girlfriend is smoking pot whilst pregnant. He claims she 'has to' as it helps with her morning sickness. They are such a pair of morons and I hate them. I lost my own twins just over five weeks ago due to extreme prematurity as my waters broke early. You would think that would be a wake up call to them really, wouldn't you?! But no. My poor Mum is already heartbroken and terrified something will happen to another grandchild now due to their idiocy and selfishness.

Winnybella, she is just not interested in BFing and I think used smoking as an excuse. When she saw me BFing DS2 she screwed her face up with a disgusted look (yes, seriously) and said 'Are you BFing again?'. Made me feel like some sort of freak!

I told her all the benefits of BFing and she still said she wouldn't do it, not helped my my stupid mum who said 'I had no interest whatsoever in BFing'. I'm not exactly 'interested' in it either but know what's best for my babies.

i still dont get why organic food is meant to be the bees knees and feeding kids anything else is wrong. surely the amount of pesticides is so small to not make any effect?
i always thought it was a clever gimmick playing on paranoid health concious/middle class eco warrior types, great way to cash in....

OMG Midori I am so sorry to read about your loss, no wonder you are enraged about your brother & his GF. Hope you are getting through it all as best you can.

midori