To think FIL getting an internet bride is sad and pathetic

[VivienScott]

Basically my MIL died a couple of years ago prematurely, both her and my FIL were early 50's. FIL had spent his entire life being looked after either his mother or my MIL and has no idea how to pay bills, cook, clean, iron, just basic fundmentals of looking after yourself as a grown up!

When MIL died FIL's main concern seemed to be who would look after him. He was constantly moaning that he had to come home from work and cook and clean for himself. This is a grown man in his 50's, not a doddery old 90 year old from a completely different generation.

Anyway, he decided he needed to remarry to avoid having to do any of this and then declared he'd looked into it and realised that MIL was one of a kind and that in general English women aren't subservient enough and wouldn't do all the things he expected of them. So he has looked into and married an Asian internet bride who is about 25 years younger than him!

They came to visit us last week and to be honest I was appalled, he expects her to wait hand and foot on him, he won't allow her to work because then she can't wait on him, and whenever she did any fetching and carrying for him in our house, he just kept giving such smug looks to us behind her back. It was awful! I should also point out that this is a guy who regularly moans about immigrants and is fairly racist.

To be honest, she seems quite happy with the arrangement, but I think the whole thing is awful. AIBU???

I don't think anyone's really judging her, are they? We're judging a man who has decided that "in general English women aren't subservient enough" and it's okay to go and buy someone who is.

Tortoise, I was just agreeing with the last few posts saying that you never know why people do the things they do, and isn't it a shame, etc. I wasn't saying that anyone was actually judging her. Sorry my English is regressing a bit.

Not really judging her, more underestimating her. There are a few "ooh, take this poor deluded girl aside and show her how women are in the west", "tell her what her options are", like she's not in control of her own life.

I agree. There are often a lot of Orientalist-type assumptions when it comes to women who have gone down this route.

Come to think about it I get that quite a lot too, because I'm a housewife

I agree with you that your FIL is (at least from our POV)pathetic but I suppose if she makes him happy and she's obviously getting what she wants out of the deal (as others have said, money, way out of poverty etc), then who are we to judge? There will be financial consequences for your FIL as he will be expected to support her extended family if he does not do so already.

Without knowing the woman in question, of course, we cannot judge whether she will fleece him out of every last penny and then leave him before the ink on her permanent residency stamp is dry or whether she will stick by him out of "gratitude".

My DH is Gambian and I see a lot of marriages like these but from another angle -young, fit, poverty stricken Gambian men who marry elderly, lonely, and yes, rather sad and pathetic English women purely for money and a passport. It rarely ends well and the women in question is usually left wiser, sadder and poorer (financially).

(Just want to add that my DH is older than me, I am infinitely better looking than he is and we certainly did not meet on the Internet.)

Based on what I hear about these marriages, they are often not "proper" marriages, more a way to get around EU immigration/ min wage.

i.e. you cant hire a Thai housekeeper but you can bring your "wife" to the UK. Bit extreme way of getting your ironing done but there you go.

(weirdly, in HK it's the other way round- people end up employing their actual girlfriends as housekeepers to get aroud immigration)

It sounds from the OP's post that FIL doesnt really want another wife- he just wants a housekeeper, and Thai bride possibly doesn't want a husband- she just wants a very well paid housekeeping job!

Tryharder- we believe you. thousands wouldn't.

If you don't like the way he treats her in your house then don't put up with it, try a mn favourite 'your house, your rules'

LoveBeing34 - really???? I would be furious if someone interfered in my marriage in that way. It reeks of making the assumption that the bride is unable to decide for herself how she wants to live her life - its her choice and not for anyone else to decide on her behalf. These women are not stupid or ignorant of the way others chose to live their lives - its just they have chosen to live it differently.

FWIW - many Thai women I've met think that its horrific that western women are "pushed" out of the home to earn a salary once married, and see that as oppressive - they see their role as providing the perfect home for their husbands.

THeBride, I dunno, I looked at a Russian Mail Order Bride site and there was a big shpiel on there about how you will find the woman of your dreams, who will be nothing like the unfeminine western women you're used to, nothing like your first wife and blah blah blah
I do wonder if some men don't believe the hype.
Serves them　right in some cases

But I'm sure some people do really find true love. It's just that the OP'S description doesn't really sound like one of those.

I'm sure some find true love, and for those that don't, a lot find happiness.

How on earth do you get around immigration here? If a Brit marries a non-EU national, that person doesn't automatically get leave to remain here.

Btw, I find it quite creepy to talk about this woman as if she doesn't 'know her options' or that she probably enjoys being subservient. I suspect that's part of a role that's expected of her, rather than anything else.

LRD - subservient in one culture is being a good homemaker in others.

You can apply for leave to remain, and I believe that unless they have strong suspicions that its purely a marriage of convenience to secure a passport, immigration are unlikely to refuse the application.

You have to jump through one hell of a lot of hoops to get temporary leave to remain, and you would not get permanent leave. The Home Office is chasing me and DP about our wedding and he's been at school and uni here since he was 7, and has a good job. I'm not doubting people do what OP's FIL and new MIL do, just gobsmacked they can get round HO regulations like that.

As to 'subservient in one culture is being a good homemaker in others' - that may be true, but what I was getting at was that I'm sure lots of these women know exactly the sort of things we're saying about them, and play to that role. DP came across a site for Russian brides (ie., for the women to apply to be brides, written in Russian, not for the British/American men), and it basically says you must tell everyone it is a Russian tradition to be subservient. This is utter bollocks. I don't know how similar it'd be for the lady in the OP, but I'd be very wary of assuming she's unaware of the stereotype she's buying into.

Sakura, I see you live in Japan, but not sure if you are Japanese? Anyway...

I used to work for a Japanese bank and I observed that it was not at all uncommon for the Japanese women to have British or American husbands, but much, much more rare for British and American women to marry Japanese men.

Whilst I don't think there was a 'mail order' situation there, it is a cultural thing. Japanese men expect their women to be extremely subservient in comparison to Western men, who will seem infinitely more reasonable and liberal. So if you are a feisty independent Japanese woman who finds it find it hard to do what's expected of her with the average Japanes bloke, a western husband is a good catch not necessarily in a financial cynical way, but just in terms of lifestyle and compatibility.

Equally, western men probably find Japanese women far less demanding than their own women!

My FIL is married to an Asian woman who is a bit younger than him, however she's not a mail order bride as they met while he was working in Singapore.

She came from a very poor, rural part of China and in her village she is known as the woman with the rich, white husband. Although he is far from rich!

She chooses to tend to his every need, not because she has to but because she wants to. She wont let him near the kitchen and does everything for him.

I'm now friends with FIL's wife and she regularly confides me. I urge you to make friends with your FIL's wife too. She thinks she hit the jackpot by marrying FIL and what some consider subservient is her waying of showing her appreciation and love.

LRD - I agree, she's probably a lot wiser than some posters are giving her credit for and playing the stereotype very very well. Fair play, IMO.

Sounds like the HO are being their usual contradictary self in your case. Hope it all resolves itself for you.

It took ages for SMIL to get all the paperwork she needed to get over here, it was about a year from when they were married to her being allowed to come over.

I'm sure she's happy enough and I don't have a problem with her, she seems OK. I just really think FIL's behaviour and attitude is quite bad.

It is a bit odd, yes. Shame he couldn't learn to look after himself really. Though, my dad has just turned 60 and he can't cook at all, if mum wasn't there he'd live on bread and cheese.

TiggyR,
Honestly, the description you've just given of the differences between Western and Japanese men is basically a myth that's perpetuated to assert the superiority of the white male: over all women and other races .

I LMAO at western men who get fooled into thinking that what Asian men have to offer simply must be inferior to what they can offer a woman.
Guys from Australia, America and Britain get married and find that their lotus-blossom is as hard as nails after they get married, and Japanese women expect a lot from him that a Western woman wouldn't expect. Divorce rates are pretty high between Caucasian man/Asian women matches.
I can honestly say that in many ways western women are softer. Obviously I'm not saying women are better in one country or another: they're not. But the perception of the down-trodden Asian woman, just because she's a homemaker, really is a myth.

My revulsion for this sort of thing is entirely to do with the thinking which leads the men to seek the brides. On that, I feel it's quite reasonable to generalise.

You can't for one second generalise about the brides, though. I have one friend whose mail-order Russian bride is more than a handful - she's way out of his league, and he loves her to bits. She just tolerates him, affectionately enough. She doesn't do any more 'housewife' stuff than you or I would.

Another friend got himself a Thai bride, who dropped the subservient act as soon as she'd got a key to his house, bullied him horrendously (abused him, actually) and, eventually, did a runner leaving him with mountains of credit-card debt. Early on, I felt he was getting his just desserts but she truly was cruel & obnoxious.

I've met template couples as well, like the ones described above, and I just find it ... uncomfortable. All that business about Asian women being more submissive is balderdash, by the way. Sure, the cultural norms say they should be. So do ours!

As long as your FIL treats wifey with respect and courtesy, OP (and she's not an abuser), I'm sure it'll be fine for them. Bit strange that your DH didn't get your concerns, though ...

My DB has a friend that has had a "mail order bride" , she waited on him hand & foot until she started talking to other mums at his childrens school & they taught her how outdated her DP's attitude was , she started to say NO to him every now & then & he took her on holiday back to her parents & came home without her bragging down the pub that she was getting too big for her boots & has now replaced her

poor woman, I get what others say but its still rather sad. I remember arriving in bankok and being disgested by the vile old gits there, boak

deep down I think most men want a meek Thai bride TBH!!!!!

porca,
YOu might be right but I hope that's not true!! I've been accused of being a man-hater on mumsnet before now, but even I'd give men the benefit of the doubt here and say 'not all men are like that'