To be so UTTERLY Fed Up with DP over this?

[JaneS]

Advice please. Or just talk me down.

DP and I get married in August. We both want it to be simple, but there are some automatic complications because of DP's religion and the fact he's not a UK/EU citizen.

We have to get married in DP's church, which is out of the city centre in a random suburb street, and is still being built (my church, incidentally, is about 10 mins from our house and two from the venue, with parking nearby). I have no idea what the service will be like, except it won't be like an English wedding (we don't say anything and don't exchange rings, apparently). I am fine with this as it's important to DP, but I do feel he should be aware we're doing it his way.

DP's priest did our betrothal ceremony a few months back. I found it a bit difficult tba, because DP's priest keeps trying to convert me, and because he basically doesn't explain anything! So, we were told we needed two witnesses, turned up with two friends. The priest then mentioned, casually, that they needed to have been baptised, and to be coming to the wedding! Also he didn't explain the ceremony at all, just stood in front of us performing it, some of it in the language of the Church, which I don't speak.

I've asked DP to get the priest to explain what will happen at the ceremony as I don't want to not understand it. I'm concerned that it might be a bit sexist, actually. DP has told me he'll sort this, but hasn't done it yet.

In fact, he's done NOTHING for the wedding at all. He keeps promising to, but doesn't. I am really busy, and will be out of the country for a couple of weeks now. He promised (again) to do the invitations this week ... he hasn't. I sent save the dates by email a while ago, which is a bit casual, so I really wanted invitations to go out with plenty of time. 8 weeks doesn't cut it (or am I being fussy?).

I am just so sad and fed up, I am actually nearly crying here which I know is OTT. I hate that there's no certainty - I don't know what will happen at the service, I don't know if he'll do any of the things he promised. I've booked and paid for the venue, so that will be fine, but everything else is up in the air. I am really busy at the moment (which he knows!) and can't take time off from what I'm doing. He is owed time off at work.

I just don't understand why he won't do ANYTHING. Every time he promises to do something I hope he will, then I still have to ask him again.

Sorry, I am just so upset, please tell me if I'm being daft and what to do.

I had similar with my DP - we're getting married in August in his (eastern european but still EU) country - in January, I said if it isn't booked by the end of January, we're doing it here, in a registry office. I did book it in a registry office here, but by then my family had gone batshit crazy over the arrangements (a whole other thread!), so we are now doing it in his country. The point is, I gave him a deadline, then acted when he didn't meet it. I got very upset about it too - weddings are bad enough without all the crap of organising them too! you have my sympathies! good luck

at halfterm. Thing is, I do want a church wedding, I'm religious too.

Actually, I don't think you'll need to say anything but they do exchange wedding rings. I am actually quite surprised that the priest didn't explain ANYTHING. If it as an expatriate community surely there would be somebody who you can ask.
It is important to know what is happening, but I have to admit that when we got married in Russia, my DH didn't understand a word of whatever registry was saying

Sorry rushin, my Russian is limited to about 20 words! I could get DP to translate though. Not bothered about it being short (or long), really, just want to know.

Kveta - congratulations on your wedding. It's a bit crap isn't it? Still, very glad to hear that the deadline thing works.

FFS this marriage sounds absolutely doomed. You will be back on here in a year's time complaining that he does nothing with the baby, never helps round the house, tells you to chill out and then wants his cock sucked.

I had a smiliar situation with my dh who is not at all religious and wanted a registry office wedding. I wanted a Greek Orthodox wedding and he said, fine, if you really want to, but you have to sort it all out and explain what I have to do etc. I was quite OK with that - seemed the least I could do if I was asking him to do it all my way. So I think your dh is very unreasonable asking you to do it his way as it were but then not explaining everything and sorting it out.

I am amazed at the priest's attitude. Our priest probably realised that dh was going with the flow, but he still insisted that there was a full explanation beforehand so he understood the key points, and on the day itself he brought someone there who translated bits of the service into English for dh and the congregation - he said what is the point of it all if noone understands! So I think the priset is being unreasonable too to not go through it all with you.

Going forward I can only echo what other have said. Make a full list of what needs doing and what you want to find out and give at least half to dh. Tell him that if anything doesn't get done on his list on schedule then it will be left undone / done your way.

BUT you do have a big stumbling block, which I also had with my dh - you care about everything and want it just so and your fiance isn't that bothered. So I am afraid it will fall to you to do things your way. My dh very much wanted to get married and be married but could not have cared less about outfits, flowers, invitations, meals and he didn't care if all friends and families came or if it was just the 2 of us. I cared a lot so I did it all. I wanted the whole big shebang so tbh I didn't then force him to do more - why should he?

And finally, I have no idea why other posters are taking his attitude to the wedding and saying he will therefore be a lousy husband etc Just because he can't be bothered organising a big wedding i don't think it means anything about him as a person or future husband - just that he doesn't really want all this fuss.

Sorry to say that I have to agree with SGB's rather crass analysis of the future for OP. Surely you could find someone else to marry, op? Marriage is for life you know.

Short and sweet, SGB! . He's good round the house at the moment, hopefully he won't change.

rushin - cross-posted with you earlier, but no, we've already exchanged rings at the betrothal and the priest says we won't do it again. I think he imagines that telling me there'll be nothing to say and nothing to do is somehow reassuring, he doesn't seem to understand that most women do not, in fact, appreciate being passive! (DP does think this is odd too, btw).

Kick, I reckon he should be bothered if he wants it his way!

I'm actually getting increasingly annoyed at the priest now. I thought maybe I was expecting too much and being a bit bridezilla, but I know if it were my vicar, he'd be wanting to talk to me by now about the wedding and how it would work.

Ah well ... will have a chat to DP when he gets home from work I think!

Why is it up to the priest to tell you what´s going on-surely your partner could if he could be bothered!

He doesn't know, diddl. He's never been to a RO wedding and his family members who're married, got married under the Communist rule, so they didn't have church weddings. The priest has also, helpfully, told us it won't be the same as the 'normal' service - but this doesn't much help, obviously!

I got married to my Austrian husband in Austria so the whole ceremony (reg office not church though) was in German. It was obligatory to have a translator there so that I and the Brit side of the family could follow what was going on. The only requirement the officials put on it was that it wasn't direct family so the girlfriend of my BIL did it.

I'm sure you can say the same to the priest- you and your family are interested to understand/ join in so can he please give you the Russian wording of this short ceremony so you can get it translated ahead of time for your own use? (Make DH do it for a start). Even if you don't have an actual translator live, you can give printouts of the words/ whats going on to your family.

I actually went through this a bit LRD, though not nearly to this extent. DH (then DP) is Catholic and I am (techinically at the time) Lutheran, which you'd think wouldn't be such a huge deal but is. I wanted to be married outside, which my pastor had no problem doing but wouldn't be recognized by DP's church, blah blah blah. We ended up getting married in a Lutheran church, which I got the feeling his priest wasn't happy with but at least then we could have the marriage blessed or something.

So. (And actually one of the most irritating people involved was my own Grandmother, who had less of a problem with her son marrying a Jew than she did her granddaughter marrying a Catholic. Conniving old bat! ) We got married in the Lutheran church and plan to have a gorgeous outdoor ceremony vow-renewal in six years (our tenth anniversary). DH sounds very much like your DP (laidback and disorganized and all that) and FWIW he is wonderful with our son and very very helpful around the house. He just wasn't great at planning weddings.

Congrats and I hope you get it all sorted!

Sorry- to clarify, no one in our family had issue with our uncle marrying a Jewish woman, of course. I was just amused that my grandmother seemed to think that was absolutely ok but the idea of my marrying a Catholic man gave her the screaming abdabs.

Traditional Russian wedding can take days and I believe the ceremony too can be very very long so when the priest says it won't be the same as 'normal' I presume he means it won't be quite as long. My friend got married to a Russian Orthodox and sent the below link to us before the wedding. Not terribly comprehensive but gives you an idea I hope.
www.russian-language-for-lovers.com/orthodox-wedding.html

C4ro - Good idea, I will. I think he'll keep switching between English and Old Church Slavonic, so hopefully he'll give me both. Though at the betrothal, as I say, he wasn't remotely bothered that I didn't understand what I was agreeing to.

You sound very happy with your husband, Cheerful.

Families and weddings eh ... I am glad I don't have to do this again!

OK-I admit I´m confused.

I thought that a big "problem" with the priest is language-that your partner understands & isn´t translating for you.

Also, this "I've asked DP to get the priest to explain what will happen at the ceremony as I don't want to not understand it." from your OP.

It also sounds as if you have already done part of it-hence it not being the same as "normal"

Traditionally the betrothal and the wedding are separate so what the OP and her DP have done so far is 'normal'.

Part of the problem with the Priest is that the Russian Orthodox church doesn't deal well with women, I'm afraid. If this is a full, strict RO church, then you'll have to adjust your plans, or move the service.

There are physical sections to a strict RO church, and a barrier beyond which women (and the non-baptised) never pass. They simply aren't allowed into the heart of the church.

That barrier may well also exist in the priest's head. This is an OLD religion, which prides itself on the fact that it has never updated itself. That's the big rub between them and the RC church - the fact that the Vatican, as out of step as it sometimes seems, has actually made massive changes to things to move with the times.

You are never going to get this Priest to take you seriously, and, frankly, if you husband is as lacksadaisical as you describe, and his church attendance matches, the priest isn't taking him seriously either.

It's a strict branch of the faith - unbelievably so for someone coming from a more relaxed CofE background. You won't get a full translation, because you aren't supposed to know what's being said. That's for the priest and for God only. It's quite likely your husband wouldn't know regardless of whether he'd been to a service or not.

You need to think of this in medieval terms. The service is in a language understood only by the priests, women, whilst never mistreated, are not on par with men. There is no nun equivalent at all, for example, and everything is taken much more seriously.

It's a lovely church, don't get me wrong, but you might find it a shocker as a modern, independant woman. And, no, you won't be married in their eyes unless it's by them. Pretty much every other chruch is regarded as tainted by modernisation.

Unless you're happy with this, and with the idea that you and your family will have issues with the service, you may need to rethink.

Be married by your church and ask for a blessing at the RO church instead.

I thought they happened on the same day-sorry!

Would you be able to get into your church for a service or at least the blessing and let your DP organise the RO ceremony for another day so it doesn't have so much of an impact if he fails to do stuff?

I assume you have a registrar present or some sort of civil ceremony as well to make it a legal wedding.

Thanks everyone for replies. Actually, I have a confession: I've just got home from work and DP has (today) sorted invitations and confirmed with the priest about ceremony length. So either he has a sixth sense or he's been sneaking peaks on MN!

However, just to reply:
diddl - The priest is actually ex-Anglican, he speaks English himself. However the language of the RO Church is Old Church Slavonic, which he and my DP understand, but I don't. Some of the ceremony will be in this language, and I need it to be translated. However, DP's never seen a RO wedding, so doesn't know what the wording would be.

DP's asked the priest now, the service will be 30 mins, so very short (nice!).

ginny - Yes, I think I agree with you about the RO attitude to women. It's one of the big reasons I wouldn't convert (the other being gay marriage). It does help hugely to know that some of the words are between the priest and God - I don't have a problem with that, it just hadn't occurred to me (stupidly). Actually, I'm a medievalist so a lot of the mindset feels lovely and familiar, but I thought this priest was a bit strange. (And I still think so.) Btw the priest and my vicar are old friends! I am going to have a blessing from one of the lay preachers from my church however, as it's important to me that someone female (she's a woman) be involved.

azazello - that is what my vicar suggested, for a dif. reason (we were worried the certificate of approval from the Home Office might not come through, and we can only be married in a CofE church without it). But I think it will be ok now. Btw, nice that you know Oxford! The RO church currently operates out of St Giles church hall, but they will be moving to a new building in Marston once it's built. Are you from Oxford then?

Sorry, hope it wasn't stupid to reply after DP's sorted stuff, but I felt rude not to! Thanks so much everyone for talking it through with me, really appreciated it.

Btw, ginny, there are RO nuns. And I know RO people who would like to see women priests, gay marriage, etc. etc. But I do think you're right about this particular priest. I think it's often the case that converts can be almost more 'strict' than people brought up in a faith.

I can't tell you (again) how much it helps to think of it as a conversation between the priest and God, though. I was thinking of it in the legal sense as a bearing of witness, and was pissed off!

LRD - glad you got some useful info - hope it all goes well now. HAve you considered asking the Russian Dept at OU whether anyone there knows the RO wedding ceremony and can translate it for you?

Just a thought if you're getting no joy from the priest.

How can you agree to something you don't understand?
Isn't that like signing something you haven't read.

You really need to get your dp to carry on the good work.

At my wedding I had everthing translated and all my parts were practised so well no one knew I was a learner who didn't know me I was so prepared.

Good luck and don't back down, how the hell can you at least not know the gist of what you are agreeing to do in your marriage???