in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

What would you propose instead then with regard to those who are able to work but choose not to?

"I know not all disabilities are the same but after seeing him I think that most people with physical disabilities are capable of some form of work. They might need retraining, but he was an inspiration."

I agree to a degree, but it depends on the disability, and the workplace. There is still a lot of discrimination against disabilities (esp. mental disabilities) unfortunately.

He also, I assume, had the qualifications for the job.

the government consider those on awful wages to be better off than those on benefits because at least once in work they are in a better position to find another job or progress up the career level in the job they are in. Minimum wage in this country is awful, there are far to many non jobs at managment level that monkeys could do but that poorer people or those on benefits are just not able to get to. Also so many jobs are advertised in house (really unfair) so that those who need them (the unemployed) never get scent of anyway.

was in the job centre today, got there a bit early so to kill time waiting I had a look at the jobs..........there was f*ck all

those "earn £500-1000 a week", "this is self employed oppotunity :this employer guarantees that itmeets minimum wage" and lots of cleaning up to about 10hrs a week, or shift work 6-2,2-10,10-6 and that was about it, oh and a few "specialist" type ones that you'd need specific skills for, oh and door to door energy sale positions.

Bloody glad I'm not looking right now

"What would you propose instead then with regard to those who are able to work but choose not to?"

The only options are either benefit sanctions or dont allow the people the choice in the first instance. Keep it simple, scrap IS and just have JSA - that means those able to work have to be working or seeking work. There is no need for a benefit to be a SAHP as having children does not stop anybody working. Those with disabled children usually claim carers not IS.

Widows allowance should remain as it is - payable for 12 months based on the same criteria it is now.

JSA needs to get tougher, too many people are far too choosy - more sanctions, decreasing allowance over time etc.

Incapacity needs to get tougher on the medicals and far more often with random checks inbetween. If the doctor confirms what type of work the person is capable of doing then the move should be made to JSA.

ESA is already tough on th medicals - that's why those recent figures are so odd, they don't take into account simple factors/look at all the facts (when they first did exH's they didn't even look at any information from the Drs simply took the word of a man fresh out of the pysch ward ).

It's all very well saying "make people seek work even if they have children" - are you going to provide the childcare as well. As in some areas it is incredibly hard to find, round here even 8-6 childcare is difficult to come by , let alone anything that goes outside of "normal" working hours.

I agree with you HappyMummy, my question was directed to DivineInspiration - should have stated that

I can see whaat you mean about people being choosy about work but there are a lot of people out of work atm due to redundency. Pushing them into unskilled jobs only gives them an unsuitable position and takes the job away from an unskilled worker who it would be more suited to. This is where it gets complicated, you dont want the unskilled workers left at the bottom of the pile with no hope of getting a job.
Things could get a whole lot worse too with the tories plans. im tempted to stay in education and do my masters then get a job in a slightly different field.

"Incapacity needs to get tougher on the medicals"

It is already.

When talking to a woman who works for a disability charity she was telling me about one person who is blind but is not considered disabled enough. Very lax rules there?

Of course everyone should have some choice but you should not be in a position to decline every suitable offer and still carry on claiming benefits

Kaloki - I know of someone who is blind in one eye and scored a perfect score for the eyesight part "because they have full sight in the other one"

define a "suitable" offer......

"Kaloki - I know of someone who is blind in one eye and scored a perfect score for the eyesight part "because they have full sight in the other one""

Lovely! I have soo much faith in this system Got a tribunal to prove DP is ill at some point. Can't wait

My father is physically disabled, paralysed from the neck down basically and has no hand control, barely arm control. When he was younger he used to work as a policy and equality officer but as he's got older he couldn't manage it anymore.

He cannot drive, but uses public transport when he can/is available but my parents have a converted car which she drives for him and he can get into it with his electric wheelchair. It cost them thousands of pounds to get done and they're working class people from East London, same as me, albeit we all moved a few years back.

Everyone with a disability is different though and just because one person copes doesn't mean another would, everyone experiences pain, discomfort, their disability differently and noone can judge that but said person. My dad takes a multitude of tablets daily and is a very intelligent man, was told he wouldn't live until 50 (he's made it just past that so far). His organs will fail because he is in a wheelchair and he's already ill.

I don't think people like him should be reassessed as mostly now he can't even make hospital appointments that he desperately needs to get to as he cannot physically make the journey for the tests let alone go to a centre somewhere or be asked questions about himself. I think it's a disgrace.

A job that you are able to do. If you have been made redundant and are a qualified accountant I would not expect you to take the first MacDonalds (no offence intended to anyone working at McD) job offered to you, you should be given the opportunity to find a job in your field. If on the other hand you are like the guy living down my road who has no qualifications, no kids, no disability and no reason not to work you should only be able to refuse so many times before your benefits are cut. Earlier someone mentioned how the Swedish system works so much better - well they can only refuse a certain number of times before their benefits are cut.

Riven I thought carer's allowance allowed you to claim housing benefit?

so you would expect someone to take the first job that comes along, regardless of childcare, and cost of living issues (ie the first job that comes along won't cover the rent/bills).

oh sorry - misread - I thought you said that you WOULD expect them to do that

I said the first suitable job - if you are for example a single parent a job working nights would most likely not be suitable, there are obviously lots of things that need to be taken into consideration.

x posts.......think I need coffee...........and to try and finish fixing my washing machine > it's still sat in the middle of my small kitchen.......

I do agree with you there. I don't think there's any reason for someone who is "looking for work" to keep refusing jobs that would meet their basic needs, and they can fit the obvious things like childcare/bill paying around.

I would love to go straight into a job in Family support type work in the future......chances are I'll probably end up on the checkout at Morrisons while I finish my degree (once I restart it again that is having had to drop out this year) and have to wait for a job I really want.

if we had more companies having in house childcare that was more affordable plenty more women would be able to work, and might be encouraged to even return a few hours a week.