in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

I know not you personally - but I don't understand the logic behind "cut benefits to you.......to make you have an incentive to want to work........but at the same time we're going to force you to stay on the benefits because we won't help with the childcare costs"

'You can live on the minimum wage for sure, you just need to be more careful and not live beyond your means. Thats the source of the countries problem, people spending money they don't have.'

That is complete and utter bollocks if you are a private renter in most major cities in the UK.

A two-bed private rental flat in Edinburgh, for example, can easily cost £700/month. Not including council tax.

That's another £150/month or so.

Then people have to eat.

And their bus pass is about £40/month on cheapest direct debit.

Oh, and power. For some odd reason, people like to use power to cook, wash clothes, take a shower and have a minimum of heat.

that's nice to know that I'll be penalised if I refused to work 6-2/2-10pm shifts, or weekend work................

oh f*ck it - I need to go and try and finish sorting out my washing machine.......I currently have the water off and my washing machine in the middle of the kitchen floor..........really ought to change my shoes as well - am getting my converse wet

"forcing mothers to stay at home" like gp mum/teacher mum/retail mum/solicitor mum...

so in fact you compulsorily detain mums?

fuck that, id scale the fence

i was back at work 6mths after all my children. no way id stay at home.

risible

The source of the country's problems is out of control housing prices and crap rental laws and high taxes on everything.

VAT on essentials like power and gas.

VAT on clothes, when many children I know are already wearing adult sized shoes at the age of 9.

council taxes higher than anywhere in Europe.

Low wages/high taxes and expensive housing.

THAT is the problem.

Not poor people who might actually want a fridge or a washing machine, how dare they!?

were some of you too young to remember Thatcher?

'And they are going to let people keep thr first £10,000 they earn without being taxed on it so lower earners will get to keep more of what they earn.'

And then hike up VAT and NI.

Interest rates may need to go up if inflation keeps rising.

don' talk to me about effing washing machines expat.........I just want a washing machine that doesn't leak over my floor when it's not being used even I don't have enough washng to keep the thing running (and hence leak free) all the time

"My husband and I are both on a few pence above minimum wage and I think we have a comfortable lifestyle. As long as you dont live in London it is loads to live on imo."

Or around London. Or Brighton. Or in fact in places with the most job opportunities.

This is the thing, the cost of living varies dramatically around the country. But the minimum wage doesn't. So £5ph in one place is fine to live on, and is impossible in another. So do you punish people just because of where they live?

Interesting thread. Some thoughts:

Agree that it's far easier to live in some areas than others on a low income.

The idea of forcibly keeping mothers at home - shudder! (I do realise the poster wasn't proposing that as her view though!)

Fact is, the country is in an economic mess. The welfare system is also not fit for purpose as it is - it's far too complex, and isn't fulfilling its original purpose of providing a safety net for people in need at a particular point in their life. For some people - not all - it is a lifestyle. I know young capable people in their twenties who have not worked yet, and their parents don't work. That's an appalling state of affairs in a developed country.

There's not going to be economic recovery and reform of the system without some 'pain' - fact. People are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that's possible.

A major part of the problem is that people have widely varying standards of what they believe is acceptable. Some people have a strong work ethic and realise that life doesn't owe you a living; others expect a job on their terms, place, hours and wages to suit their precise wishes, and see it as beneath them to get off their arse and do it.

No, there aren't millions of jobs out there, but neither are there none - my local job centre certainly advertises quite a few. But of course, they're the jobs no one wants because they start too early, are too dull, or people genuinely panic about how they will manage because our shitty system makes it so damn complicated to come off benefits and into work and bring in more money as a result. The only answer is to have a significantly bigger differential between paid work and benefits. People need to be tangibly better off in work. Not marginally better off - but really better off, so that they have more choices available to them to improve their lives, buy services they want, have a better home, holidays, standard of living. How are you ever going to encourage young, unmotivated people to work if you don't? It's no good relying on the 'hidden' benefits of working (self esteem, social life etc) - these people often have parents who don't work either, so they don't have any role model for those things.

Anyway - must get ready for work - yeap, would love another hour in bed but this is the real world where we have to take the rough with the smooth!

Yeah - I'm up too Violet - damn work insisting on my attendance at 08.30am

Basically, the country is in a massive mess.

House prices are being held artificially high by low interest rates. The prices never would have got to these levels if people had not been able to borrow at such ridiculously low spreads. Inflation is meanwhile ticking up whilst the BofE decides whether it's a blip or a v scary trend (let's hope the former). However, if interest rates rise then a lot of people will get repossessed.

At the same time, the UK is not a great country to invest in for "middle of the road" jobs because of its tax regime, benefits system etc so to expect wages to rise is not feasible. As the economy becomes increasingly global, we're going to find ourselves further and further down a longer list of attractive investment hubs.

We can't afford to pay the benefits we are paying at the moment, especially if tax revenues fall.

I think the West has probably just had its time tbh.

hmm, it is a tricky situation indeed, i have personally been in all kinds of financial situations, have been 2parent family on unemployment benefits, 2parent family on tax credits, single parent on unemployment, single parent on working benefits (that one worked very well for me despite odd working hours) and currently 2parent family not claiming anything as dh v. well paid.
it can be worrying to come off benefits into work as the system really is making life pretty reliable if not overly comfortable and if you cant get your head past that then you are never going to experience the real esteem boost that is feeling valuable to society when in work (not saying non working people cant be valuable but i personally felt more able to hold my head up in society when working). i love working and cant wait to get back after (hopefully long) maternity leave. my solution would be to limit benefits to non working families to a MAXIMUM total (no matter how many children)(including housing, school meals etc etc) of NO MORE than the maximum a working couple on full time minimum wage can earn before tax (which i think is about £480 per week, please correct me). i would then supplement working families (if needed and on a sliding scale) with housing benefits, child care and school meals. unless my heavily (overdue) pregnant brain is broken, this would then discourage those families that CHOOSE (and i know that isnt always the case) to have large families on benefits and also make it beneficial to work. i do appreciate that this means that some unemployed families might be better off than some single working parents but i do think that the minor details could be ironed out in the process. i am surprised that all governments have always increased benefits depending on the number of children in a family but surprisingly bosses dont do the same which does seem to give the impression that working families need to think about being able to afford to have children and non working people dont need to worry about it.

Kaloki - My family had to move because we couldnt afford where we used to live. It makes sense doesnt it? I dont see why its punishing you. If you cant afford it, then you cant afford it.

I dont just live on the minimum wage any way I do my daily clicks, survey sites, voucher codes etc. It takes me hours of a night to do all this so I can afford all the extras and my lifestyle. That adds a lot to my income a month.

A lot of the people I know are better off on benefits but have some self respect )this isnt including disability/recently redundant etc). I live in a 2 bed flat in a family of four cause thats in my price range. I would rather live in that and pay my own way than get a free house. I know many people that dont work in 4 bed houses with sea views etc as you are allowed to pick any house you want here on hb if you have the right number of kids. They live a luxurious life on benefits and I know it happens as I know many family members that do it. I dont believe in it though. I am happier living within my means and working.

lucky you you had the means to move.

What do you mean? I just took a suitcase and my handbag on the train when I moved here. I didnt have anything else lol. My husband brought a suitcase and a portable tv. It was before we had kids and we were considering having them in the future so knew we had to move. That was when we were 18 as neither of us could afford to be in our mums flats anymore.