in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

Misdee - People here in housing association are mostly families with no working parent. I only know of three working families on my estate.

well I'm glad you're not one of my friends, thankfully none of my friends "dis"respect me for the situation I'm in right now....even though all of them either work, or are SAHM's with working DH/DP's.......

'expatinscotland - I will never be able to afford to live in a real house and neither will any of my working friends.'

Nor will we. We're also a working poor family on 10p more/hour than min. wage.

I fail to see how benefits claimants are responsible for that fact.

bollocks. most of the peopkle round here in council/HA houses do work. dh is at work right now, has been since 6am. has been everyday for the last 8months. ok, we had some time on benefits as he was extremely ill, but he is proud to be back at work. i am jobhunting to look for something in evenings.

misdee - I have a bloody nice real house. struck gold with this one, nice area, landlord with a good taste in decoration (and decidedly quiet one too - haven't heard from him since I moved in lol) and a rent that's extremely reasonable for this area so that once I'm working again (oh sorry - I have work ethic do I as I'm on benefits ) I should be able to afford the rent still.

god Misdee - is it really 8 months since he went back to work - doesn't time fly

exactly toc, you have worked, you wil lwork again. you are doing fine raising those 3 lovely boys. Good luck to you sweetness

yes, 8 months. and working his new heart hard

actually to be correct I've spent more time not working my adult life than I have working .......but in my defence I was a SAHM with a working partner and until 2yrs ago neither of us had claimed any benefits at all even when we hit that real financial shit 5yrs (gosh I can't believe it was that long ago ) ago

I think everyone is getting anoyed as they dont know what it is like to live in an area of extremely high worklessness and non working households and seeing this when you work all hours on the minimum. I see all the men from the estate down the local day and night but they live in actually houses on the same street whilst people that actual work have to live in flats. I know a lot of people that rip it cause we work and have called us idiots. I know of a lot of the neighbours who had extra kids just to get houses/bigger places as you can get private rents down here so there is no waiting. If you dont live in an area like this then you will never understand as it isnt in your face all day.

People in new builds that they are selling for 134k for a flat to 285k for a house have been made by Barratt homes and I know 4 single mums that got one for free with no job (all early 20s and they are gorgeous inside). Im sorry but it annoys me that they can privately rent this and claim on HB whilst I work for less. I am 100% for stopping this happen. I would be lying if I said we hadnt thought of quitting work and taking the easy option but I cant do it cause I feel its morally wrong.

" as they dont know what it is like to live in an area of extremely high worklessness and non working households and seeing this when you work all hours on the minimum"

really? And you know that we don't know what that's like do you?

i know 3 older couples, with no kids at home, still in 4-6 bed houses. only one is actively looking to move, and i offered a house exchange but we arent in an area she wants sadly.

thing is Altinkum - I could be in a 6 bedroom house if I so wanted to.....and was willing to pay the extra money out of my CTC/IS.

Before I got back with exH briefly I was topping up my full HB allowance by £60 a month because I chose (ok I didn't there wasn't a lot of choice as to 3 bedroom houses that would let to people on benefits at the time and I HAD to move) to live in a more expensive house than the LHA covered.

You can choose whatever size house you want, but there is now a "flat rate" entitlement (for the majority) that is the maximum you will get for your family size.

Not like the old system where a family of 4 could be getting £300 a month more HB than the next family of 4 simply due to having found a more expensive house to live in.

toccatanfudge - You cant do if you dont know the extent of what some people get. My friend (who I have since fell out with cause I dont agree with her choices) said in January 2008 she wanted a kid went out every night clubbing pulled numerious blokes and was pregnant by the March. She was on the minimum at a supermarket and didnt want to pay her own way. She then got a 2 bed house on HB on my estate and has not worked since. She has parties every night, spends all the spare cash on weed and just wanders round town all day with her kid. This is just one of many stories of the area so yes it is a sore spot for me when we manage it all on the minimum and have less.

don't tell me what I do and don't know.......I know the extent of what some get, I also know the reality of what most get. I have walk out to work a night shift, while 6 months pregnant, having been up since 8am that morning, and no hope of getting any sleep the following day until night time, and seen people I know who are on benefits walking off to the pub........at weekends it wasn't unusual to see some of them still staggering home as I left work in the mornings either.

I wasn't so bitter and twisted as to be jealous of their life choices.

Toccatonfudge - as I said I am not talking about you I am talking about what I know of everyone in my own area on this estate. I dont mean a few people are doing it here I mean most. As I said I live in the top 5% socially deprived estates in the country due to amount of families on low wage and the most benefit claimants. Its not that we dont have jobs I work in a nursery with 60% of the kids are Polish. They just do the work the English wont do. I am sorry if you are personally getting offended but I am not against you.

I'm quite impressed that you know the circumstances of EVERYONE on your estate, and work.......

We lived in an estate like that, too, sunshine.

But instead of just getting pissed off by it, because it royally pissed me off, especially the noise when I had to get up and go to work, we moved out.

Expat - I wont ever e able to move out expat. I bought a flat here as its all I could afford. It is a nice place and nice surroundings but just no one bothers working. It does annoy me when I think about it when I see all my mates going down the beach when I am off to work. They know how I feel about it but they said just quit you will be better off and saying I am an idiot for bothering. I wont though cause I dont agree with it. When I am out we just dont talk about it as it gets me riled up!

tocattanfudge - I know cause the pubs 2 doors down and I am an ex bar maid there and its a place where everyone knows everyone and everything. You cant fart without the whole estate knowing lol.

Even if you beleive that people get pregnant, get nice houses paid for them and live in luxury surely it is obvious they are only better off in the short term, which is why many parents on benefits, especially single parents, are desperate to things which help their and their DC's prospects in the future.

Sunshine, it was a bit misleading of you to say that you managed perfectly well on minumum wage...while not mentioning you worked 60 hours a week over 3 jobs...

Nobody else works in our little street either expat. DH and I make lots of noise getting up and out in the mornings

Believe

Salfresco - I managed whilst knowing I would probably never be clever enough to earn over the minimum. It doesnt matter how many hours you work, you got to do what youve got to do. Its how people did it in the past.