in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

oh yes riven - you've just reminded me to ring the CSA on Tuesday - thanks

.........to get my £20 a month out of exH..........well off the state actually but hell if he's not going to f*ck all I'm may as well have some his "entitlement"..........

I know a family, they have 9 children, all under 12 and all singletons, neither mum nor dad work, no disabilties or special needs with children or parents, they get almost $600 a week in benefits, £30 a day is spent on alcohol. This is not a moan about peole on benefits, I live on them myself, but I hope the government start their crackdown on the two parent families that can but dont work. Christ, just realised thats £210 a week on alcohol, I reckon it would take me 3 years to drink that much.

sorry, 600 pounds not dollars

Riven, in the case of childcare for children without special needs, the cost to society is not simply comparing the current cost of benefits with the cost of nurseries. Taken away from the cost of nurseries is the present and future tax stream from the parent that is otherwise able to work, not just now but for the future. The main issue is to support working parents so they do not have too long a career break to prevent them from getting on at the same stage in their career.

Otherwise, sometimes, they just cannot get back on the employment ladder once they get too old and have too long a gap in their CVs.

Agree that the cost would be too prohibitive to cater for childcare in carers' situations. But that does not make it right. I think you should have more support in this regard.

No, you have misread what I have said.

I do NOT think pensions should be cut - where the hell have I put that?!

Yes, I am on benefits at the moment, for all the reasons already laid out. Do I believe I will be on them in 2yrs time - no I sincerely hope to god not.

Yes, I have 2 inheritances (probably when Im about to retire - my family live well into their 90's!) as a financial egg-nest for my retirement. Will it be enough - i doubt it very much. Hence my saying that when I am in full time employment, I hope to be able to squirrel away money for the future.

On the issue of tackling the deficit this country is in, I believe that top dogs need to pay more, a hold be put on benefit increases, and cutting out a lot of the "administration" this government seem to think we "need".

'Sorry, but I think that cutting pensions and raising the retirement age further is plain wrong whilst able bodied people can pick and hoose about the jobs they want to do.'

The age is going to have to rise because 'retirement' was supposed to last about 5 years before a person was likely to pop his/her clogs (life expectancy).

Life expectancy has increased. Will continue to rise.

In addition, rates of dementia, an extremely expense to treat disease, are rising and the number of people classified as elderly, too.

There's no society around that can afford for people to leave work and put their feet up for 20+ years.

tried to skim read whole thread but I myself am a little worried.

I'm a single parent. I work full time and I'm at open uni part time. I get CTC, WTC and some HB. No maintenence as X-p abroad and they won't/can't chase him for it. I am worried as we find it hard to meet bills etc at the mo. It may sound selfish but I'm worried the funding for my degree will be stopped and I won't be able to complete it. That is my meal ticket to a higher wage and getting off benefits.

Did I think I'd be in this situation - NO - like many of you.

good post blueshoes. It's no good just thinking short term - it's about long term investment. It is simply not viable to have healthy, able bodied adults out of the workplace for years on end, or for people to expect to retire at 65 and then live for 30 more years to the manner in which they've become accustomed, courtesy of the state. It just can't happen. The systems are outdated.
People have a far greater life expectancy now. It's unrealistic to think things can, or will, remain as they have done.

Dan - I took your comment couple of pages ago (Sunshine - but that is where the majority of the benefits spending goes!!!) to mean that you support pension cuts. Obviously I was wrong so my apologies

mumbar - I hope no funding gets taken from you. I admire what you are doing and think you should be rewarded for trying to help yourself. Personally I think more funding should be put in to helping people like you who are trying so hard and take it away from the ones that do abuse the system, or who refuse to work when their children are at school.

Riven - it does account for a large % of the budget - here

I am busily chucking money into my pension fund and buying some 'extra years'. It would be lovely to have more money to spend now (after all, I'm working damn hard to earn it) but realistically, I'd be daft to think short term, because I don't want to live in poverty for the last phase of my life. Even so, I expect to continue working until at least 65, and will count myself very lucky if I can afford to drop to part time.

and I still stand by what a lot of others have said here.... where are the jobs?

There are 2 jobs on the job centre website this week for my area - 2 posts for the same job for which I do not have the required qualifications.

3 jobs in the local paper, 1 delivering the yellow pages, another on an as and when required basis (so therefore not steady and unable to guarantee work) and the other is a 16hrs per week post that I will apply for but doubt I will even get an interview for.

The government need to be ploughing money into creating jobs and recouping it when those on benefits come off them.

No, I was just highlighting to Sunshine that a huge proportion of the benefits fund goes on pensions - and rightly so... but I do think those 65yr olds that are fit and healthy and ABLE to work, should, unless they fund their own retirement to a new set age by the government. I believe it is to be 67?!

OK, herbi. We're in a recession with high unemployment and more public sector cuts to be made.

where are all the jobs?

It is already 67 for the ones not about to retire in the next couple of years.

There are of course areas where even with the best will in the world one cannot find work. There are also areas where there are jobs yet people on benefits choose not to take them. My local MacD is hiring - the guy down my road with a 3 bed council flat, no kids and no disabilities turned it down

'There are of course areas where even with the best will in the world one cannot find work. There are also areas where there are jobs yet people on benefits choose not to take them. My local MacD is hiring - the guy down my road with a 3 bed council flat, no kids and no disabilities turned it down'

Same as here they have to keep giving all the jobs to the Polish as the English arent interested. Its the same at the bars, cafes, restaurants etc. I am friends with a few Polish people and they are definitely hard grafters.